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Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Trevize » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:35 am

So with the change to strength next patch and me having both Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valience, I am trying to work on a way to use these in a libram swapping macro. More for fun and curiosity then end game application while tanking.

So I want the Valience libram on the entire time except right before a HotR in order to maximize the up time and chance to proc per tick of SoV.

The main problem I see is there being an internal cooldown on Valience (read from another post).

I am curious to hear any ideas or from anyone who has tried it.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Trevize » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:44 am

After some brief testing, neither libram procs in a basic 969 macro with the librams being swapped after each move.

It looks like they each have a 10 second internal cooldown after being equipped before they can proc. So obviously this will not work...but good to know about the internal cooldown.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:49 am

No. I don't know about LoV, but LoD has a 6 sec IC, or so it's been said. If true, then you'd have to swap to it during your ShoR cast, leave it on for six seconds, and hope it procs on your next HotR. If it doesn't proc, you'd have to leave it on for another 12 seconds to hope for it to proc again. If LoV really does have an IC, then switching it in after ShoR would prove useless in that 12 second gap since you'd be switching back to LoD as soon as LoV came off IC.

You could do it, but you'll lose the near 100% uptime of the 200 dodge rating granted by LoD and will spend more time watching your buffs than watching the encounter as there's no macro that can accomplish the state-checking you will need.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby steadypal » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:11 pm

all my testing shows about on avg 80% ish uptime on the dodge libram, is everybody else getting similar results?
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:48 pm

steadypal wrote:all my testing shows about on avg 80% ish uptime on the dodge libram, is everybody else getting similar results?


I just hit the boss-level target dummy for 10 mins. In that time, I had hit with HotR 94 times. It never fell off for more than six seconds, and I don't think it ever fell off for but maybe a handful of times. As you can see from the screenshot, I had a 94% uptime. You can also see that it shows a total fight duration of 10 mins and is confirmed in the Recount 01:21:06 - 01:31:14.

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If you consider the proc chance of 80%, this make sense. You have a 20% chance for it to not proc on the first swing; you have a 4% (20% * 20%) chance for it to not proc on the first or second swing; you have a .8% (20% * 20% * 20%) chance for it to not proc on the first, second, or third swing; and you have a .16% (20% * 20% * 20% * 20%) chance for it to not proc on the first, second, third, or fourth swing. Over an infinite number of trials, I believe you're looking at near to 96% uptime since you have two chances to refresh it before it falls off - one 12 seconds in and the other 18 seconds in. I don't recall ever seeing it proc back-to-back. If you're testing it for only a few swings, yes, you could have lower uptime, I suppose, but the RNG would really have to hate you. I never fell below 93% uptime.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby steadypal » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:55 am

so your saying it doesnt have a 10 second ICD cause i have NEVER seen it reapply itself at 12 seconds, only at 8 or below...
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:12 am

steadypal wrote:so your saying it doesnt have a 10 second ICD cause i have NEVER seen it reapply itself at 12 seconds, only at 8 or below...


No, I'm saying it has a 94% uptime. I also said I never saw it proc back-to-back, so it may very well have a 7 to 11 sec internal cooldown. It changes nothing. Since the duration of the buff is 18 seconds, that still gives you two chances to refresh while buff is active (96% chance) and it's almost certain (99.2% chance) to happen by the third swing.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby steadypal » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:51 am

well just sayin

buff starts at 17, cant reapply at 11, leaving you with having to reapply it at the 5 second mark, so if it doesnt reapply then, it is going to fall off, leaving us one chance to keep this up with 100% uptime, which isnt happening... oh well, im not arguing if its a good trinket, i was just thinking is it worth more than gear with stats on it..
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:13 am

steadypal wrote:well just sayin

buff starts at 17, cant reapply at 11, leaving you with having to reapply it at the 5 second mark, so if it doesnt reapply then, it is going to fall off, leaving us one chance to keep this up with 100% uptime, which isnt happening... oh well, im not arguing if its a good trinket, i was just thinking is it worth more than gear with stats on it..


Are we both talking about the same thing here? I'm talking about the Libram of Defiance, but you mentioned a trinket and gear with stats, neither of which can be put in our relic slot.

Assuming we're both talking about the Libram, it starts at 18. You can reapply at 6 or at 0, and if you do, the uptime is continuous. I guess if you have shite latency and are doing a full rotation, you're not going to get the same uptime percent and could possibly hit reapplies at 5 and -1. I didn't account for Oceanic players.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby steadypal » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:18 am

go hit something and look at the number on the buff , it starts at 17, doesnt count down from 18.


17>11>5, hit it at 5, or it falls off for best case 1 second.
Last edited by steadypal on Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:20 am

steadypal wrote:go hit something and look at the number on the buff , it starts at 17, doesnt count down from 18.

Notice the buff also hangs out at 0 for a second. 0 to 17 is 18.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby theckhd » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:08 am

steadypal wrote:go hit something and look at the number on the buff , it starts at 17, doesnt count down from 18.


17>11>5, hit it at 5, or it falls off for best case 1 second.

All buffs do this, the game rounds down the last digits of your buff. I've never seen a blessing at 30:00, it always starts at 29:59 due to server lag.



Also, I ran a simulation that predicted around 98% uptime for the libram buff. Given the small sample size, I'd say your value of 94% is in reasonable agreement with that.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Spectrum » Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:41 am

Good to know about Libram of Defiance. I've been putting off badge purchases, but this one looks like a decent upgrade over LoO for non-block encounters.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:35 pm

theckhd wrote:
steadypal wrote:go hit something and look at the number on the buff , it starts at 17, doesnt count down from 18.


17>11>5, hit it at 5, or it falls off for best case 1 second.

All buffs do this, the game rounds down the last digits of your buff. I've never seen a blessing at 30:00, it always starts at 29:59 due to server lag.



Also, I ran a simulation that predicted around 98% uptime for the libram buff. Given the small sample size, I'd say your value of 94% is in reasonable agreement with that.


Damn. Missed that post. Could've saved myself 30 minutes (had actually ran it two times before with what felt like similar results, but only SS'd the last one since I didn't have teh emitPU mod then) of button pressing and just linked that instead. Oh well.
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Re: Libram of Defiance and Libram of Valiance Swapping

Postby Rhiannon » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:48 pm

In all fights where I've been actively maintaining a rotation for the duration of the fight I've been seeing 92%+ uptime. Not actually many of those about though.
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