HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:14 pm

Some do; my wife occasionally had a craving for something sour, and pickles fit the bill.
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Haberjinx » Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:14 pm

They always want something thats sweet,sour, and salty at the same time then once they get all three they don't want any of it...

Oh and having max hit rating isint good when it comes to pregnacy... :twisted:
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby gmf1 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 6:45 am

Mmm not to be off topic :) But if you are really missing hit gem or enchant for it, I see little point in gearing for it if you are going to loose stam and avoidance etc, by sticking with lower lvl gear.

If you think about it when they put hit on an item, points are taken from other stats, while we would usually gem for stam/avoidance, if we are found lacking hit gemming for it gives us the same net stats in the end.

If anything it gives us more flexibility, If we find our threat is fine (have to wait for next patch) then we aren't stuck with it on our gear.

Also while hit is a great threat stat and being capped is nice, It is not hugely above strength (actually below strength from what i've seen) and exp, while still a considerable threat increase not being hit capped does not necessarily not allow us to have good threat, I'm sure in some cases some gear combinations that don't leave you hit capped could provide a threat gain if the itemization is right.
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Threatco » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:26 pm

i can see the use for hit. Reliable snap threat. Obviously we dont need it for sustained threat, but those add pick ups and other times when 3 misses in a row = wipe.

An off set with hit on it (lower ilvl) and hit enchants and food is preferable to me then wasting stat allocation on my highest level gear for it.
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Zothor » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:54 am

The part that infuriates me is the shift in gearing philsophy. Our threat is being nerfed based on our ulduar gearing levels - which are hitcapped and mostly expertise capped. With literally almost zero hit available on 245+ gear, are we sure that threat nerf isn't going to be more than the 5-6% people are expecting?

Sustained threat isn't something I'm too concerned about, but snap threat keeps getting whacked in the face. First the shield slam nerf hit it, now the overall threat nerf will hit it, and as I switch out more ulduar gear and go further and further below the hit cap, that'll get it too. I'm basically going to be running with zero hit rating (Except accuracy... as much as I want to switch to blood draining you'll pry accuracy from my cold dead fingers at this point) and crossing my fingers that I don't miss a pickup.

That's no way to have to work :-\
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Venoseth » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:31 pm

If hit's so important that you can't miss a taunt (which is what it sounds like people are making their case for) then just pick up the Glyph of Righteous Defense?

Now that they've improved AD i don't feel obligated to run w/ the Glyph of Salvation so the RD glyph replaces it [every other glyph option is threat (I'm using Vengeance and DPlea)] very well, IMO. ^^
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby badgermonkey » Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:49 am

[every other glyph option is threat (I'm using Vengeance and DPlea)]


Just to be picky, I'm almost 110% certain Divine Plea isn't a threat glyph ;)
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby CircuAuchindoun » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:26 am

If our tier gear is going to be so expertise heavy why not embrace it and sub out your Vengeance glyph for Righteous Defense? Like mentioned above I'm even considering removing Salvation from my spell book.
Not saying you should hunt down expertise, or ignore the hit, but this might let us play with our glyphs a bit more.

Whats would your opinions be for not needing Glyph of SoV?
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Zothor » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:59 am

CircuAuchindoun wrote:If our tier gear is going to be so expertise heavy why not embrace it and sub out your Vengeance glyph for Righteous Defense? Like mentioned above I'm even considering removing Salvation from my spell book.
Not saying you should hunt down expertise, or ignore the hit, but this might let us play with our glyphs a bit more.

Whats would your opinions be for not needing Glyph of SoV?


While I haven't looked into the deep math on expertise since 3.2 made it actually worth something, my kneejerk was just the opposite. If I'm losing my hit advantage, I want to be DAMN sure that I'm dodged/parried as little as possible.... which may mean stupendously high amounts of expertise. I know the dodge soft cap is 26, but what's the hard cap for parries?
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Steve » Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:39 am

People aren't completely sure what boss parry rates are, but a good guess is roughly 2x the dodge rate for starters. It's probably quite a bit higher. I don't think it's something you could reasonably reach in likely available tanking gear unless you were sacrificing significant amounts of avoidance (which you might find worthwhile).
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Zothor » Tue Aug 25, 2009 12:05 pm

Steve wrote:People aren't completely sure what boss parry rates are, but a good guess is roughly 2x the dodge rate for starters. It's probably quite a bit higher. I don't think it's something you could reasonably reach in likely available tanking gear unless you were sacrificing significant amounts of avoidance (which you might find worthwhile).


I may do this to be honest. The situation with tanking gear of 245+ seems to be that it's nearly all one of 3 catagories: def/dodge/parry, def/oneavoidancestat/expertise, or the occasional def/avoid/blockvalue. there's like no hit. but some of the 245 upgrades with expertise, simply by sheer force of item level over their 226 counterparts, are still huge upgrades that we happen to be getting at on of expertise on by chance. My expertise is already at like 30+ with the glyph and only going to go up with more expertise upgrades.
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby onacouch » Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:00 am

Hit options for Paladins in this Tier:

Helm: Judgement Helm from Onyxia 3.2.2
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/49324/judgement-helmet/
The 232 version of the Onyxia Tank helm actually doesn't look bad compared to the under-budget Tier 9 helm's block value, or the badge helm's expertise. To be honest it looks like I may end up wearing the Judgement Helmet into Icecrown, as the choices here are hit (Judgement looks AWESOME), expertise, or under-budgeted block value (This will probably get fixed just in time for 3.3). Not sure exactly what the 245 ony helm will look like, but if it's a direct upgrade to the 232 one (which is most likely the case) that just seals the deal. The only downside is that I don't think Onyxia is coming until like November.

Legs: T-9
If you're desperate for hit you can wear these. The 4 piece looks very strong, and it looks like the weakest pieces are the Helm and the Legs because of the slightly less desirable stats and the fact that the block value on them is lower than it should be. The shoulders, too, are arguably weak but I plan on wearing them as my ONLY expertise piece to get me near the dodge-cap. I'll end up taking this over the helmet to make my 4-piece and stay hit-healthy.

Feet: Twin Valks-10 Heroic
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/47952/sabatons-of-the-lingering-vortex/
Looks pretty sweet, there's some hit if you need it. Other option is pure avoidance if you don't want the hit.

Wrist: Beasts-10 Heroic/Crafted bracers
http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/47918/dreadscale-armguards/ / http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/47570/saronite-swordbreakers/
These two are very similar, but it's hit if you need it. Other option is Expertise.
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby baneoftruth » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:16 am

badgermonkey wrote:
[every other glyph option is threat (I'm using Vengeance and DPlea)]


Just to be picky, I'm almost 110% certain Divine Plea isn't a threat glyph ;)

Well...it kinda is...I mean, damage reduction helps you live longer, being alive helps you generate threat, so that means...damage reduction = threat :-p

(I know, I hate me too)

Regarding the hit rating issue...yea, it's driving myself and the other protadin in my guild absolutely nuts. There really are only four options.
1. Glyph for Righteous Defense
2. Maintain extra pieces of gear with hit rating on them, swap those pieces in for taunt/threat sensitive encounters
3. Ignore the lack of hit when making gearing choices
4. Restrict gearing choices around your hit rating

Personally...I'm placing myself somewhere between options 2 and 3.
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Candiru » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:20 am

5. Enchant hit on Weapon
6. Enchant hit on gloves / gem hit in yellow sockets.
7. Use a hit trinket when you actually need hit
?

I am thinking about regemming shiver to have a +20hit gem. I already have enchanted it with titanium weapon chain. I can then tank with Ardent guard most of the time, and swap in shiver before I taunt, then swap back.
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Re: HEY! Where did all the hit go?!

Postby Kiorken » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:50 am

Ah HOSTESS! NOW THATS THE STUFF!!!

Honestly, they should have hit on non-class specific tank pieces. The reason they are adding all the high ilevel tanking gear with expertise, is to make up for DW frost dks...but exp without hit is....kinda worthless? Hit capped is good, but not essential, as it is with DPS. You could do Accuracy, or Titanium chain, icwalker, hit to gloves, but you lose armsman. Oh well. Exp isn't that great for pallies.
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