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Now that we're missing Exocism

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Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Wardari » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:57 am

So this is a rather targetted question for a very specific situation, but i'm curious as to what everyone else is doing.

Every other rotation in our 969 run you have a free CD while waiting for that 9 second CD to end, I usually use consecration (i think most do) in this gap but now i'm finding my avoidance going up and up i'm really finding that i'm lacking mana to maintain consecration in this gap and keep my mana high enough. Now this is mostly on trash which you can easily solve by just skipping consecration, or just pulling more mobs to increase your dmg taken and or mana from back BoSanc as explained in viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21933#p404163

It's usually workable in most siutations but i'm having real problems on Vezax, prior to 3.2 I would sub in exo for a consecrate when off CD to save on some mana, 14% mana cost is certainly worth it and although the TPS may not be much it allowed me to use that GCD for something at a budget cost when i was really low on mana.

I'm usually under the effects of divine protection or another similar CD throughout the enrages but often these are wasted due to me getting a long string of avoidance right through the enrages, which although great for healer mana isn't good for mine as I rely on taking a bigger hit during the enrage in order to get back some mana from healing.

I could take off some gear and dump some avoidance, but my biggest problem is that my avoidance gear is also my biggest effective health gear - I don't mind dropping a couple of % avoidance but I don't want to dump health too.

I'd rather not spec 2/2 SA as i'll be losing stuff elsewhere and this is somewhat overkill, I was tempted to dump a glyph for the SA one for this fight (not divine plea or SoV) and then just switch back afterwards.

I'm just under 20% parry, around 30% dodge raid buffed, 29k odd armor and 46.6k health fully buffed.

I'm giving this from the perspective that is my biggest pain in the rear end, maybe others are in the same boat or having similar problems in other situations - I'd be interested to hear how you're dealing with i :)
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Candiru » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:01 am

Yeah, now you cannot sub cons with exorcism in your rotation mana starvation on Vezax is quite nasty. I just bit the bullet and specced into 2/2 SA. Its only a 1% threat loss from the point of crusade, and you gain nearly twice as much mana for that fight.

Avenger's shield has a similarly high cost as cons, so thats not really useful.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Wardari » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:08 am

Candiru wrote:Yeah, now you cannot sub cons with exorcism in your rotation mana starvation on Vezax is quite nasty. I just bit the bullet and specced into 2/2 SA. Its only a 1% threat loss from the point of crusade, and you gain nearly twice as much mana for that fight.

Avenger's shield has a similarly high cost as cons, so thats not really useful.


It's actually even higher at 26% of base mana, so yeah not a viable alternative at all.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Isetnefret » Wed Aug 12, 2009 9:23 am

If you've got a druid healer, and they can afford it, I believe one of their HoTs gives you mana back even if you are at full health (talent for them). I could be wrong about that, but it might be worth overhealing just to get the mana benefit.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Worldie » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:26 pm

That's the Replenish effect and i'm fairly sure it's disabled in Vezax fight.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby baneoftruth » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:07 am

In 25-man: I just turn around for 2-3 seconds when I go OOM...I wouldn't really be generating threat anyway while OOM (except seals + auto-swing), so no big loss...

In 10-man: I sit a couple times, haha...seriously. I tell the healers I'm going to take a big hit, and I sit.

Combine those tactics with a rogue or hunter misdirect, and you're golden.

I was actually trying to compare out the incoming damage numbers on the last General kill. IIRC, the average incoming attack was around 13k. I blocked about 55k damage over the course of the fight, and by popping my trinket General literally only hit me once during Surge (the hits are really weak now anyway...). So I'm strongly considering swapping out a couple avoidance pieces for a couple high SBV/STR pieces for the next kill, if I'm tanking. It'll be slightly more damage taken, slightly more mitigated per hit, and more overall threat. I'm sure 1-2 pieces will be enough to get the desired effect.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Zeianna » Wed Aug 26, 2009 12:42 am

There's no gap between the 9's that can't be filled by one of the 6's... so... I'm uncertain wtf the OP meant.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby hoho » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:18 am

Worldie wrote:That's the Replenish effect and i'm fairly sure it's disabled in Vezax fight.
Even if it isn't then it's relatively useless as it rarely procs. Raid-healing druid with revitalize specced at 2/3 (10% chance of proccing):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-u ... 219&e=3559

Sure, every bit helps but I don't think it's something that's a musthave. As tank that 1% of max mana probably isn't much.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Wardari » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:36 am

Zeianna wrote:There's no gap between the 9's that can't be filled by one of the 6's... so... I'm uncertain wtf the OP meant.


To clarify for you Zeianna, I'm complaining about the lack of mana in Vezax these days causing me problems with maintaining my rotation using consecration, I would previously often pop exo for Vezax in place of consecrate in low mana situations, as opposed to not being able to cast anything as i'm under the rather hefty mana cost of cons these days during Vezax.

I'm left praying for a big hit during the enrage so I can take dmg to get some mana back, but more often than not the avoidance RNG screws me over :p
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Digren » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:07 am

Since it's started to come up more and more in the gearing discussion, might I suggest something drastic? Consider replacing avoidance and mitigation gems with threat gems. You say yourself that you are trying to take more damage in some situations, and are struggling with threat. While I'm not going to recommend to a new-off-the-street tank that they gem for strength, you seem like you're in a position where the logical gear choice could be to focus your supplemental gemming towards threat production and away from damage reduction.

Obviously if you're already wearing your threat gear gemmed with strength and hit for this fight, then you've already moved past this point.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby sublimated » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:17 pm

If people are suggesting things like turning around to take hits and even sitting to get crit for higher mana return, why don't you just cast exorcism anyway? If you time it well you can get it in between hits anyway since 1.5s cast is not huge. To add to that, people are purposely getting hit anyway, and that's all you achieve by casting while taking a hit. You get hit.

Exo damage went up with its cast-time modifier, and its still very cheap. It's a viable alternative still for veszax, considering people are going out of their way to get hit anyway to deal with mana starvation.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Zeianna » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:58 pm

sublimated wrote:If people are suggesting things like turning around to take hits and even sitting to get crit for higher mana return, why don't you just cast exorcism anyway? If you time it well you can get it in between hits anyway since 1.5s cast is not huge. To add to that, people are purposely getting hit anyway, and that's all you achieve by casting while taking a hit. You get hit.

Exo damage went up with its cast-time modifier, and its still very cheap. It's a viable alternative still for veszax, considering people are going out of their way to get hit anyway to deal with mana starvation.


This. Very much so this.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby majiben » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:53 pm

Swing reset would result in minimal gains but if you want to do it anyways....

Also there is a high chance that the cast will take longer than 1.5 seconds due to pushbacks.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Zeianna » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:01 am

Majiben wrote:Swing reset would result in minimal gains but if you want to do it anyways....

Also there is a high chance that the cast will take longer than 1.5 seconds due to pushbacks.



If that's the case then don't sub anything! I don't see the issue here. Judicious use of wings on cooldown should provide you with more than enough threat, even after dropping consecrate and not subbing anything in it's place. Are your DPS really riding you that hard Wardari?

Also, speccing 0/54/17 really isn't much of a change. I was 54/17 (at all times -- even outside of raids) all throughout our ulduar progression simply so I didn't have to respec for Vezax. You won't notice a change unless you are already being ridden by your DPS.
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Re: Now that we're missing Exocism

Postby Wardari » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:52 am

Zeianna wrote:
Majiben wrote:Swing reset would result in minimal gains but if you want to do it anyways....

Also there is a high chance that the cast will take longer than 1.5 seconds due to pushbacks.



If that's the case then don't sub anything! I don't see the issue here. Judicious use of wings on cooldown should provide you with more than enough threat, even after dropping consecrate and not subbing anything in it's place. Are your DPS really riding you that hard Wardari?

Also, speccing 0/54/17 really isn't much of a change. I was 54/17 (at all times -- even outside of raids) all throughout our ulduar progression simply so I didn't have to respec for Vezax. You won't notice a change unless you are already being ridden by your DPS.


It's not that the DPS are riding me that bad, early on i'm fine tearing ahead of the DPS it's just as the fight goes on my mana pool gets lower and lower and that's when for obvious reasons my TPS drops a bit and over the fight some of the DPS like the mages, warlocks and our Boomkin catch up. I'm chain salving him which certainly helps but i'd prefer to find a way to keep my normal rotation going if possible - was considering just reglyphing one slot for the SA glyph, extra 2% mana from it and then just swap it out after.

The use of exco might be an idea, as you said i'll likely take a hit while casting which gives me some mana too - depends how much of a delay I'm taking with knockback to cast it as ideally i don't want to delay my rotation by more than the 1.5 second GCD, 2 seconds max.

I shall try reglyphing and casting exo and see how I get on :)
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