Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

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Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby Veilan » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:28 pm

With speccing vindication, I only got 3 points left to dump into extra threat. My guess is that 3/5 seals of the pure is rather superior to 3/3 crusade, but maybe somebody has some news on that - I rather despise talents I can't fill fully, so I thought I'd ask.

Still, I'm thinking seals of the pure actually gained even more of an advantage over crusade with 3.2. True or false?

Thanks!
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Re: Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby fuzzygeek » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:35 pm

False. It's in theck's thread. Look for discussion on DUH mobs.
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Re: Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby Veilan » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:16 pm

Interesting. The gist of it seems to be that SotP is slightly better for normal mobs, and Crusade considerably better for demons, undead, humanoids, elementals. However, how many bosses belong into that category?

Let's see... Ulduar has two applicable bosses out of 13 encounters. Not impressive. But... the trial of the crusader is a little more giving.

I guess crusade is worth a shot then. Fits the theme and all, too :lol:.
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Re: Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby Soralin » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:43 pm

Not having a go at you specifically Veilan, but it amazes me how many threads get created in the "Advanced Training" forum when the information that posters are looking for are contained in the stickied threads at the top of the page. Almost has me wishing for an EJ-esque moderation system just for this section of the forum :P
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Re: Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby Argali » Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:30 am

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Re: Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby Veilan » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:57 am

Heh, well forgive me for not digging through the handy piece of documentation that is a disorganised 62 pages thread. Also forgive me for not thinking of searching for DUH mobs (that search parameter actually helped a great deal, I found theck's comparison with that almost immediately - thanks!). :wink:
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Re: Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby majiben » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:25 am

theckhd wrote:In an effort to make this thread a little more manageable, I've deleted the post that was originally here (which is quoted in the first response anyway) and replaced it with this introductory post.

History: This thread actually spawned from the Hit so bad? thread, which was discussing the relative value of Hit Rating on tanking gear. I was curious about the scaling laws, so I took the formulae from Jonesy's Prot DPS/TPS spreadsheet and threw them into my favorite numerical analysis tool, MATLAB.

Since the MATLAB discussion quickly started heading off-topic, the mods decided to split that part off into a new thread, which is what you're currently reading. Unfortunately, that means that the first page or so of this thread is basically unintelligible, because a lot of it is referring to discussion from the other thread.

Since then, I've modified the code structure to be more versatile, so that it can be used to model a variety of different scenarios. This post will act as a table of contents for all of the results the MATLAB code has been used to generate, as well as a basic introduction to how to use the code.


List of pertinent calculation results
Subdivided by category, more important results are large and bold, while ancillary or niche discussions are regular size.

Calculations updated for 3.2




Calculations updated for 3.1

Calculations pre-3.1




Glossary
This section will define acronyms that appear over and over again in calculations. I have tried to be good about defining these clearly in newer calculations as well, but this master list should contain everything you need just in case.

Current Terminology (See below for discontinued acronyms)
  • 1HWS - One-Handed Weapon Specialization talent. May also be seen written OHWS.
  • A - Usually used to represent Glyph of Avenger's Shield when referring to glyphs. Often seen in conjunction with other glyphs, i.e. "JA" for Judgement + Avenger's Shield glyphs, "EA" for Exorcism + Avenger's Shield, etc.
  • AS - Avenger's Shield.
  • BP - Broken Promise.
  • C - Depends on the context.
    • When referring to glyphs, C refers to the Glyph of Consecration, and will often be used in conjunction with other glyphs, i.e. "JC" for Judgement + Consecration glyphs, "CE" for Consecration + Exorcism etc. May also be referred to as "Cons" in cases where a single-letter acronym would be ambiguous.
    • When referring to talents, C stands for the Crusade talent. It is usually seen preceded by a number representing the # of talent points, such as "2C" for 2/3 Crusade. Combinations of talents are usually written like "5V+2C" for 5/5 Conviction + 2/3 Crusade. May also be seen as "Crus" in cases where a single-letter acronym would be ambiguous.
  • Cons - Consecration, see C.
  • Conv - Conviction, see V.
  • Crus - Crusade, see C.
  • DUH - Cutesy acronym that stands for Demon, Undead, or Humanoid. Uused to refer to mobs or bosses which give Crusade the extra 3% damage. Note that Elementals are also DUH mobs, but the acronym isn't as cute if you have to fit an E in somewhere. An NPC which only gets the base 3% from Crusade is often called a "generic" or "no-DUH" mob.
  • E - Glyph of Exoricsm. Often seen in conjunction with other glyphs, i.e. "JE" for Judgement + Exorcism glyphs, "VE" for Vengeance + Exorcism etc.
  • Exor - Exorcism.
  • HotR - Hammer of the Righteous.
  • HS - Holy Shield.
  • HSsA - Holy Shield substitution with Avenger's Shield. Refers to a 969 variation where every 4th Holy Shield is replaced with Avenger's Shield.
  • J - Usually used to represent Glyph of Judgement when referring to glyphs. Often seen in conjunction with other glyphs, i.e. "JV" for Judgement + Vengeance glyphs, "JE" for Judgement + Exorcism, etc.
  • JsA - Judgement substitution with Avenger's Shield. Refers to a 969-variation where every 4th Judgement is replaced with Avenger's Shield.
  • JsHoW - Judgement substitution with Hammer of Wrath. Refers to a 969 variant where Judgement is replaced with Hammer of Wrath.
  • Jud - Judgement
  • LL - Last Laugh
  • LoO - Libram of Obstruction
  • LotSS - Libram of the Sacred Shield
  • R - Reckoning. It is usually seen preceded by a number representing the # of talent points, such as "3R" for 3/5 Reckoning. Combinations of talents are usually written like "5V+2R" for 5/5 Conviction + 2/5 Reckoning.
  • S - Seals of the Pure talent. Usually seen preceded by a number representing the # of talent points, such as "5S" for 5/5 Seals of the Pure. Combinations of talents are usually written like "5S+2R" for 5/5 Seals of the Pure + 2/5 Reckoning. May also be written "SotP" in cases where the single-letter acronym would be ambiguous.
    Note: In some of the old graphs, S was used to indicate the Seal of Vengeance glyph. See V.
  • ShoR - Shield of Righteousness
  • SoB - Seal of Blood (Martyr for Alliance)
  • SoR - [http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=21084]Seal of Righteousness[/url]
  • SotP - Seals of the Pure, see S.
  • SoV - Seal of Vengeance (Corruption for Horde)
  • T or TbtL - Touched by the Light talent.
  • V - Depends on the context.
    • When referring to glyphs, V will stand for the Glyph of Seal of Vengeance, and will often be used in conjunction with other glyphs, i.e. "JV" for Judgement + Vengeance glyphs, "VE" for Vengeance + Exorcism etc. Note that in some of the older graphs, S was used for the SoV glyph, this usage has been discontinued.
    • When referring to talents, V stands for the [ur=http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=20121]Conviction[/url] talent. In this context, it is usually seen preceded by a number representing the # of talent points, such as "5V" for 5/5 Conviction. Combinations of talents are usually written like "5V+2C" for 5/5 Conviction + 2/3 Crusade. May also be written "Conv" in cases where the single-letter acronym would be ambiguous.

Discontinued Terminology - may be found in older calculations
  • 6s-sub - Discontinued - Refers to a 969 variation where Exorcism is used in place of one of our 6-second cooldowns whenever available. If I ever need to refer to it again, it will be 6sE.
  • EoC - Exorcism on Cooldown. Refers to a 969 variation where Exorcism is used in a 9's slot whenever available, pushing back the 9-second ability that would have been used in that slot by 3 seconds. Also seen as "E-o-C" or "Exor-on-cooldown."
  • HotR-sub - Discontinued - Refers to a 969 variation where Exorcism is used in place of HotR when available. If I ever need to consider this case again, it will be HotRsE.
  • HSsE - Holy Shield substitution with Exorcism. Refers to a 969 variation where every other Holy Shield is replaced with Exorcism. Older calculations may also write this as "HSsub" or "HS-sub," but this usage has been discontinued.
  • HSS - Discontinued - see HSsE.
  • HSsub or HS-sub - Discontinued - see HSsE.
  • JsE - Judgement substitution with Exorcism. Refers to a 969-variation where every other Judgement is replaced with Exorcism. Older calculations may also write this as "Jsub" or "Jud-sub," but this usage has been discontinued.
  • Jsub - Discontinued - see JsE.


Code
If you'd like to mess around with the code yourself, you'll either need MATLAB or a variant thereof. MATLAB is stupidly expensive itself, but there are free alternatives, including FreeMat, Octave, and Scilab. I haven't tested any of the code in these programs, but I haven't used any fancy functions or anything, so they should natively be able to run the m-files.

The files themselves are available here: http://sites.google.com/site/theckhd/mfiles. The files are subdivided into folders according to their purpose. There are archive files containing the full set as well for those who want to download everything at once.

I hope to add a "user's guide" of sorts when I find some time, but it may be a while.

Not exactly what I would call disorganized :roll:
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Re: Any news on Seals of the Pure vs. Crusade?

Postby QuantumDelta » Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:32 pm

Translation matrix engaged;
Didn't bother looking. :P
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