Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

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Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Metheoro » Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:18 pm

So SoV is the current tanking seal now? before 3.2 the gab between both was not very perceptible but tonight i got the impresion that SoV generates by far more dps/tps

what do u think guys?
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby toothdecaykills » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:29 am

Metheoro wrote:So SoV is the current tanking seal now? before 3.2 the gab between both was not very perceptible but tonight i got the impresion that SoV generates by far more dps/tps

what do u think guys?


This is 100% correct. Take note that, in most cases, SoR will provide more threat than SoC due in large part to the higher Judgment damage, I think.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Metheoro » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:12 am

(it was 3.00 am remember this i was kind of sleepy already i dont quite remember well the numbers)

i went to the dummy with gear and just the seal up

the rotation was autoshot and judge
with sor it was like 420 dps and with soV it was like 580

i dont have glyph of seal of vengeance btw...
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Metheoro » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:15 am

toothdecaykills wrote:
Metheoro wrote:So SoV is the current tanking seal now? before 3.2 the gab between both was not very perceptible but tonight i got the impresion that SoV generates by far more dps/tps

what do u think guys?


This is 100% correct. Take note that, in most cases, SoR will provide more threat than SoC due in large part to the higher Judgment damage, I think.


hummmm right

SoV/SoC was modified to do "physical damage" right?
and righteous fury pumps the holy threat...

but if thats the case then SoR is still the tanking cuz what we look forward to is the threat not the dps
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Epimer » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:22 am

SoR hasn't been the tanking seal since TBC. SoV has been much better for the duration of this expansion, and was just buffed in patch 3.2. Use SoV.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Metheoro » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:29 am

OK as far as i noticed reading mmo and notes
SoV/SoC was modified to do physical damage just like divine storm (not holy anymore)

first question: my statement above is correct?

but if it is correct then it dont get benefited by righteous fury and SoR does...
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:51 am

Metheoro wrote:OK as far as i noticed reading mmo and notes
SoV/SoC was modified to do physical damage just like divine storm (not holy anymore)

first question: my statement above is correct?

but if it is correct then it dont get benefited by righteous fury and SoR does...


Read your combat log and look at the SoV damage. Is it physical or holy? Just because someone says it is one way or the other on here doesn't make it so. Discover for yourself :)
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby theckhd » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:16 am

Metheoro wrote:OK as far as i noticed reading mmo and notes
SoV/SoC was modified to do physical damage just like divine storm (not holy anymore)

first question: my statement above is correct?

but if it is correct then it dont get benefited by righteous fury and SoR does...

SoV, SoC, and SoR all deal holy damage. I'm not sure what you're reading or where, but it's wrong.

Use SoV.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby toothdecaykills » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:52 am

theckhd wrote:
Metheoro wrote:OK as far as i noticed reading mmo and notes
SoV/SoC was modified to do physical damage just like divine storm (not holy anymore)

first question: my statement above is correct?

but if it is correct then it dont get benefited by righteous fury and SoR does...

SoV, SoC, and SoR all deal holy damage. I'm not sure what you're reading or where, but it's wrong.

Use SoV.

He's reading this, from the 3.2 patch notes:

    Seal of Vengeance and Seal of Corruption: These seals have been redesigned. Only auto-attacks and Hammer of the Righteous can place the debuff on the paladin’s current target(s). However, while the seal is active, each melee swing or ability (excluding judgements) that lands on the target will deal a percentage of weapon damage as Holy damage to the target. This damage maxes out at 33% weapon damage with 5 applications of the debuff and scales upward evenly based on how many applications of the debuff are active. This Holy damage deals double-damage critical strikes. In addition, the damage-over-time debuff is now considered a melee attack for the purposes of determining its chance to hit, miss, be dodged or parried.

What this means is exactly what it says. In short, the debuff acts like a melée strike, but rest assured that it still does holy damage.

For the record, even SoR was always useful in some very rare and limiting instances. Sometimes targets would die before Vengeance could truly start working its magic. I used it with some pretty nice results in the Thorim arena where I valued the quick and bursty TPS over the sustained nature of SoV. Of course with the current SoV, there appears less reason to ever switch Seals.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Makaijin » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:08 am

When an ability states it's a "melee", "ranged" or "spell", all it means is that it follows the corresponding combat table. The type of damage, such as physical, arcane or holy, is considered the "school" of the damage. So it's entirely possible to have a "Holy melee", which SoB seal damage is a prime example. The seal damage does holy school damage, but it used the melee sttack table. This made the seal procs that can be dodged ,parried or blocked, and at the same time cannot be resisted partially or fully, even by level difference since it followed the melee combat table. This also made it so that the procs ignored spell immunity, and because again, the damage type is determined which combat table it used, and not which school it used.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby theckhd » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:45 pm

toothdecaykills wrote:What this means is exactly what it says. In short, the debuff acts like a melée strike, but rest assured that it still does holy damage.

The wording there is misleading. Jere did some testing for me, and found that the application of the debuff acted like a melee strike, in that it can be dodged/parried/etc. The debuff itself does not act like a melee strike though, it works exactly like every other DoT in the game. In other words, it cannot be dodged or parried.

Also, nowhere in that quote did it say anything about doing physical damage. They were quite clear about it only acting as a melee strike for determining whether it was a hit or a miss, despite the ambiguity in what it was that was hitting or missing.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby sublimated » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:29 pm

I was somewhat expecting my threat to have dropped a bit due to ShoR damage being lower, but I was surprisingly pleased at seeing my threat somewhat even higher than normal due to the SoV changes. I'm a pretty happy camper right now :lol:
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Veilan » Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:09 pm

Epimer wrote:SoR hasn't been the tanking seal since TBC.


This.

And yeah, the SoV buff more than compensates the ShoR nerf. Though I find it boring that retardins use the same seal as we do now. Of course, it'd be fun if the stacks of each SoV from every paladin boosted individual judgment damage... :D

I wonder when they'll drop the seal of righteousness, or is it somehow good for holies or something? I dunno, seems a little superfluous.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:22 pm

Veilan wrote:
Epimer wrote:SoR hasn't been the tanking seal since TBC.


This.

And yeah, the SoV buff more than compensates the ShoR nerf. Though I find it boring that retardins use the same seal as we do now. Of course, it'd be fun if the stacks of each SoV from every paladin boosted individual judgment damage... :D

I wonder when they'll drop the seal of righteousness, or is it somehow good for holies or something? I dunno, seems a little superfluous.


I have some retadins in my guild telling me that SoR is better that SoC for pvp ret. Have a hard time buying it, but don't pvp myself and hadn't read pertinent information, so didn't continue with arguing.
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Re: Gap between SoR and SoV/SoC

Postby Rhiannon » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:51 pm

SoR vs SoCom for ret pvp is a point of debate on ret forums/AJ, and there's points in favour of both. SoR could definitely be thought superior for some specs/comps/situations.
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