divine sacrifce

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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby gibborim » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:23 pm

Nadir wrote:If that were true, how am I absorbing 95,882 (336%) damage with 28.5k HP?


You are confused about what he is saying, I advise reading the post he made before the one you are blithly responding to. Better luck next time.

Lightstrike wrote:It absorbs up to 150% per attack.


What are you basing this off of besides easily answered conjecture? Your entire argument is twarted by saying that since damage transferred while bubbled is zero'ed out, it only counts as 0% of you health against the 150% maximum total.

All we have is anecdotal evidence that Bubble+DS = RaidWall for the full duration of DS. Whether that happens because the max per hit is 150%hp or the total max is 150%hp and Bubble simply zero's the damage is immaterial to the OP's query.

Unless you can test and post data, or find someone who has, I advise you make less completely unsupported claims.
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Seloei » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:30 am

Divine Sacrifice absorbs upto 150% of your health in damage taken per hit on a target. It does not get used up
Divine Sacrifice

To clarify, it transfers 30% (40% if talented) of the damage taken on a random raid member (just for the argument, theres only one who is taking damage now). The damage transfered over CAN NOT exceed 150% of your health. If you have 20k health then the maximum you can absorb per hit is 30k. That means if he would have been hit for 90k you will lower the hit by 30k. If he gets hit for even 91k you will still only absorb 30k. Talented or untalented.
If he gets hit for 200k you still will absorb a maximum of 30k not 30/40% of that 200k.

Now imagine there are 25 raiders each taking a simultaneous ticking 5k dot. If all of them are in range of you your total damage intake from a 'single hit' (since the aoe dot ticks at the same time) would be 125k altho since it's on a per-person not a per-absorb-you-take you will reduce each dot tick from 5k -> 3.5k/3k and absorb 50k/37.5k which is more than 150% of your health but since it is divided among 25 you will still absorb it.

Also, so you won't die you should have Divine Shield active otherwise too much aoe damage going on will one shot you.
Divine Shield -> Divine Sacrifice. Both time out at the same time, shield 0.5s later.

Divine Sacrifice does not break on a X amount of damage taken, only after the duration is over or you die.
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Minarva » Sun Jul 05, 2009 4:31 am

It is definately a per damage scenario, and in response to someone having a warrior tank for XT hardmode instead of a paladin, dont. We are the highest damage tanks (and threat) and a rogue can do the expose armor with hardly any loss, leaving random warrior to shatter in his dps spec. We do it this way in 25 and 10 man and its easily the best option through trial and error.
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Conaan! » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:09 pm

Nadir wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
Raeli wrote:I believe it works like this:
Maximum Absorbed Per Attack: 150% of your health
Maximum Absorbed total over duration of buff: Unlimited



incorrect, its 150% damage taken breaks the dsac, not per attack, if it was per attack, it would always just kill you, which doesnt make ANY sense at all


If that were true, how am I absorbing 95,882 (336%) damage with 28.5k HP?


if you bubble, it will last full duration, as you do not actually take any damage, and therefore doesnt break Dsac

i advise you to re-read the tooltip of Dsac
Divine Sacrifice
Instant 2 min cooldown
30% of all damage taken by party or raid members within 30 yards is redirected to the Paladin (up to a maximum of 150% of the Paladin's health). Lasts 10 sec.

so what it says here (looking at untalented only), you take 30% of all the raids damage that is within 30 yards of you, and this damage caps at 150% of your health, whats so great, is it only counts ACTUAL damage taken, therefore, if you are immune to damage, it doesnt count it, but continues to redirect it until you are no longer immune and take 150% of your HP in damage, or it wears off

where you get the idea that it is per hit, i dont know, infact, there is not even a mention of "hit" in the tooltip at all

and also, Hosac works on the exact same principle
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Candiru » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:15 am

Conaan! wrote:where you get the idea that it is per hit, i dont know, infact, there is not even a mention of "hit" in the tooltip at all


In WoW, tooltips and the way the mechanics are implemented are only correlated, they do not imply causation!

IE, people tested it and it appeared to be 150% of your HP as a maximum hit (back when it was a new skill) I don't know if they have changed it since.

Don't get too hung up on what tooltips say, they often are wrong.
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Minarva » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:16 am

Best way to test is to use divine protection and sacrifice, you'll soon die. (even though you should be left with 10% life).
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Candiru » Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 am

I think that is because the damage redirected by divine sacrifice is not affected by %damage reduction effects. So RF, ShoT, BoSanc, DP glyph, Divine Protection etc won't lower the damage taken.

It is a different mechanically oddity you are seeing there, rather than proving the 150%!
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Conaan! » Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:31 am

Candiru wrote:
Conaan! wrote:where you get the idea that it is per hit, i dont know, infact, there is not even a mention of "hit" in the tooltip at all


In WoW, tooltips and the way the mechanics are implemented are only correlated, they do not imply causation!

IE, people tested it and it appeared to be 150% of your HP as a maximum hit (back when it was a new skill) I don't know if they have changed it since.

Don't get too hung up on what tooltips say, they often are wrong.


its not hard to test, and ive done it in a raid before, 10 man XT tantrum, it will dissapear rather fast, but not on the first tick, and since the damage to the raid is a constant, it should either fade after first hit, or last the entire duration because it is not instantly killing me

the tooltip is right, and theres no reason to believe otherwise
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Candiru » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:07 am

The reason to believe otherwise was how it was working when it was initially implemented, before they hotfixed it a few times!

It used to behave in the way people were describing. I haven't tested it since the last hotfix so I don't know about the current implementation, but it certainly used to be the 150% seemed to refer to an individual hit.
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Kracus » Mon Jul 06, 2009 12:22 pm

Nadir wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
Raeli wrote:I believe it works like this:
Maximum Absorbed Per Attack: 150% of your health
Maximum Absorbed total over duration of buff: Unlimited



incorrect, its 150% damage taken breaks the dsac, not per attack, if it was per attack, it would always just kill you, which doesnt make ANY sense at all


If that were true, how am I absorbing 95,882 (336%) damage with 28.5k HP?

That is a question you should ask yourself and take the time to shift through combatlogs to actually look at it.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23782&hilit=divine+Sacrifice

I wanted to know the answer to the question: "Does it break or does it absorb the entire duration?" Everything I found, by shifting through combatlogs makes it look like it breaks.

Had this same argument with a guildie and he was too stubborn to continue the conversation I was trying to have and make it out to seem like I was arguing with him rather than trying to get an answer.

I've since kind of given up on it but the place I was trying to test it on was mimi p1 plasma blast, of course part of my question was whether or not - for a tank save - Hand or Divine is better.
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Conaan! » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:06 pm

Kracus wrote:I've since kind of given up on it but the place I was trying to test it on was mimi p1 plasma blast, of course part of my question was whether or not - for a tank save - Hand or Divine is better.


from what i understand, Hosac and Dsac stack, therefore if you bubble, you can throw both out, and it will last until bubble wears off, and it either fades or you take too much damage in a short period
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Kanthela » Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:08 pm

From my experience Divine Sac will fade if the spell succeeds in absorbing 150% of your total heath from a single target. If I have 40k HP, Divine Sac will fade after any raid member transfers 60k damage. This has only been observed in combination with Divine Shield, as I have found no real situation to use Divine Sac that would NOT kill me in less than a second unshielded.
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Re: divine sacrifce

Postby Kalakaua » Tue Jul 07, 2009 1:51 am

Kanthela wrote:From my experience Divine Sac will fade if the spell succeeds in absorbing 150% of your total heath from a single target. If I have 40k HP, Divine Sac will fade after any raid member transfers 60k damage. This has only been observed in combination with Divine Shield, as I have found no real situation to use Divine Sac that would NOT kill me in less than a second unshielded.


I use unshielded divine sacrifice when tanking Thorim arena sometimes, but that's the only place.
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