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Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Mutley » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:42 pm

then why mention 101.8%? seems like people really don't remember :P
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Fridmarr » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:55 pm

jere wrote:
Mutley wrote:Don't think he was,

From Worldie's Illidan guide

How to avoid Shear: The mechanic of Shear is fairly simple, if the attack is parryed, dodged or blocked, the debuff will not be applied. The skill itself cannot miss, ... You will need 101.8% block+parry+dodge in order be immune to Shear.


So if he was talking about rogues it would be dodge+parry. :)


I believe the first couple of rogue tanking videos were of Mother Shazz and Gruul. He was probably referring to the Mother Shazz fight.

This is what I was referring too, though I think some rogues did illidan as well. Did they even need to be immune to shear if they were immune to all his other physical attacks?
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby jere » Sun Jun 28, 2009 3:09 pm

Mutley wrote:then why mention 101.8%? seems like people really don't remember :P


because on Mother, a rogue could dodge/parry/be missed but not block, so 101.8% would be the correct value for that.

Fridmarr wrote:This is what I was referring too, though I think some rogues did illidan as well. Did they even need to be immune to shear if they were immune to all his other physical attacks?


Honestly, it has been so long that I don't remember all that he did, but that sounds correct off the top of my head.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Elsie » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:13 pm

jere wrote:
Mutley wrote:Don't think he was,

From Worldie's Illidan guide

How to avoid Shear: The mechanic of Shear is fairly simple, if the attack is parryed, dodged or blocked, the debuff will not be applied. The skill itself cannot miss, ... You will need 101.8% block+parry+dodge in order be immune to Shear.


So if he was talking about rogues it would be dodge+parry. :)


I believe the first couple of rogue tanking videos were of Mother Shazz and Gruul. He was probably referring to the Mother Shazz fight.

Not to mention avoiding Shear as a rogue serves no purpose since you're not taking damage anyway. I think he tanked Najentus, too, didn't he? Among other things.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Mutley » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:14 am

jere wrote:because on Mother, a rogue could dodge/parry/be missed but not block, so 101.8% would be the correct value for that.


Wouldn't that still be 102.4% then? The only time I ever saw 101.8 being used was on illidan, and only to counter shear. Or is the combat table for rogues different in some way?
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Elsie » Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:34 am

Mutley wrote:
jere wrote:because on Mother, a rogue could dodge/parry/be missed but not block, so 101.8% would be the correct value for that.


Wouldn't that still be 102.4% then? The only time I ever saw 101.8 being used was on illidan, and only to counter shear. Or is the combat table for rogues different in some way?

Shear can't miss, so you don't get the defense difference on miss. The rogue is the same principle, but for block.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Mutley » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:03 am

Elsie wrote:so you don't get the defense difference on miss.


And what would that mean?
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby jere » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:59 am

Mutley wrote:
Elsie wrote:so you don't get the defense difference on miss.


And what would that mean?


It means that the 2.4% extra comes from the difference in your base defense and the weapon skill of the boss. Against an 83 boss, their weapon skill reduces your chance to block, parry, miss, and dodge by 0.6% each. Your character sheet doesn't show this, so we simply say to get 102.4% on your character sheet to make up for that loss.

Since a rogue doesn't block attacks, a boss isn't going to reduce his chance to block by 0.6%, so all the rogue loses is 0.6% miss, 0.6% dodge, 0.6% parry, so you need 101.8% to make that up, as opposed to 102.4% if the rogue did block. It's the same principal for shear and miss %.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby lythac » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:23 am

Also why block cap for Heroics is 101.6%. Block cap -

+3 102.4
+2 101.6
+1 100.8
+0 100

Complete avoidance (for classes that can parry) -

+3 101.8
+2 101.2
+1 100.6
+0 100


The difference is 0.04 for every weapon skill over base defense for dodge, parry, miss + block
The difference is 0.2 for every level for dodge, parry, miss + block
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby gibborim » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:32 am

Hrm, this would be a very good troll post concept. Make a post that looks like a standard nub question and see how many knobs respond with copy-paste answers without reading the actual post.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby lythac » Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:51 am

I read the OP and didn't copy paste :(. OP question was answered a while back, now we are on to something different.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby abinning » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:13 am

Lythac wrote:I read the OP and didn't copy paste :(. OP question was answered a while back, now we are on to something different.


It's called derailing =P

One of my tanks last night said he was talking to some uber paladin (best paladin in BC or some crap) and he taught him some stuff we never knew. This was one of his "words of infinite wisdom"
I told him it was crap, but it's nice to see I'm right. =)
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Mutley » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:23 am

jere wrote:Since a rogue doesn't block attacks, a boss isn't going to reduce his chance to block by 0.6%, so all the rogue loses is 0.6% miss, 0.6% dodge, 0.6% parry, so you need 101.8% to make that up, as opposed to 102.4% if the rogue did block. It's the same principal for shear and miss %.


Thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Dodge Diminishing Returns

Postby Rachmaninoff » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:13 pm

Nikachelle wrote:It is in effect always. But the percentage at which you should start to care is at 700 rating. But you have to be around 28% dodge for that.



can someone explain this to me? I'm sitting at 654 dodge rating and 29.16% dodge.... I don't want this shit to be kicking me in the ass in the end....

personally I think its great to have alot of dodge, dodged 33.5% of attacks on 25-XT-hard-mode the other night... but it sounds like there is a catch....
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Drathian » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:46 am

700 dodge rating is the DR decay point where point-for-point parry provides more pure avoidance, although iirc, that's assuming 0 parry rating. Can't remember for sure.
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