Dodge DR *not the standard question*

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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Venoseth » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:05 pm

Sathoris wrote:Diminishing returns kicks in from the first Dodge Rating or Parry Rating you equip.

If i'm not mistaken Diminishing returns increases with every point of Dodge / Parry you equip on you. Meaning that at you will always gain less pure avoidance from a point of Dodge/Parry that you will be adding in the future.

Although there are some stats that are not affected by DR like: Block rating, Defence Rating (Converting into defence) but the amount of miss/dodge/parry gained is affected by DR.

Hope it helps.


To quote myself from the other topic on this subject on the very same page.

Venoseth wrote:Defense / Dodge / Parry / Armor are all subject to DRs at every level, and that being said, it's also true that any point you add to that stat will be "worth more" but receive stronger diminishing returns than the previous points. So what does that mean?

Each point you put into a stat is worth as much as each previous point when you look at each stat independent of the other stats (but when you look at all of your stats together dodge/parry/defense need to be put on in certain ratios to ensure maximum effectiveness because they're all in the "avoidance" category).
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:08 pm

Venoseth wrote:
Sathoris wrote:Diminishing returns kicks in from the first Dodge Rating or Parry Rating you equip.

If i'm not mistaken Diminishing returns increases with every point of Dodge / Parry you equip on you. Meaning that at you will always gain less pure avoidance from a point of Dodge/Parry that you will be adding in the future.

Although there are some stats that are not affected by DR like: Block rating, Defence Rating (Converting into defence) but the amount of miss/dodge/parry gained is affected by DR.

Hope it helps.


To quote myself from the other topic on this subject on the very same page.

Venoseth wrote:Defense / Dodge / Parry / Armor are all subject to DRs at every level, and that being said, it's also true that any point you add to that stat will be "worth more" but receive stronger diminishing returns than the previous points. So what does that mean?

Each point you put into a stat is worth as much as each previous point when you look at each stat independent of the other stats (but when you look at all of your stats together dodge/parry/defense need to be put on in certain ratios to ensure maximum effectiveness because they're all in the "avoidance" category).

You should probably read the OP. The question he has is whether or not dodging an attack gives less of a chance to dodge the next attack. It's in the title of the thread, his OP, and was cited several times, including in a response to the post you quoted that it is not a question of how the DR on ratings works.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Chicken » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:31 pm

It's a pretty standard example of the gamber's fallacy actually. And much like with gambling, it is definitely a fallacy in this case as well.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Fridmarr » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:33 pm

No, the OP's friend was suggesting that there was a change in your dodge chance if you dodged the previous attack, not because of the law of averages, but because of coding.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby rokkon » Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:57 pm

Fridmarr wrote:No, the OP's friend was suggesting that there was a change in your dodge chance if you dodged the previous attack, not because of the law of averages, but because of coding.


This is exactly true, and the question has been answered sufficiently several times in this thread :)

Perhaps I should change the title to "Already answered, move along now"
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:32 pm

And by "exactly true" you mean, "This is exactly what his friend suggested, but he's WRONG". ;) (In case others read this later and missed that.)
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby fuzzygeek » Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:39 pm

Wait, what?
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby rokkon » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:12 pm

Kelaan wrote:And by "exactly true" you mean, "This is exactly what his friend suggested, but he's WRONG". ;) (In case others read this later and missed that.)


Good call, last thing this thread needs is more confusion. To sum up:

Diminishing returns on dodge means: Each dodge rating you stack in your gear will be less effective towards earning a percent of dodge than the one before it.

Diminishing returns on dodge does NOT mean: After each dodge during a fight your chance to dodge diminishes.

I take the blame for the confusion in this thread, there is a small but critical distinction between the type of diminishing returns I was asking about, and the diminishing returns in effect in the game that everyone is already familiar with. With the number of people still confused it's obvious I failed to make that distinction clear enough.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Elsie » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:35 pm

No, the OP's friend was suggesting that there was a change in your dodge chance if you dodged the previous attack, not because of the law of averages, but because of coding.

Could be true depending on how the Random Number Generator is programmed =P You cannot program something to be perfectly random.

But still, in essence, it isn't true. For one, it's probably a /random 10,000 (0.00 - 100.00) and any number preference is greatly outweighed by the large amount of numbers. The large amount of numbers makes it such that where even if, say, a "5" was rolled and thus less likely to be rolled again, you're only looking at a 0.01% maximum chance if that number was eliminated entirely for the next roll.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Amaranthea » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:00 pm

How is this thread longer than "you're right and your friend is wrong" followed by a few people agreeing?

Reading the OP is hard.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Mutley » Sun Jun 28, 2009 4:35 am

Majiben wrote:101.8% actually. Man no one remembers that.


And that had to be 101.8% dodge parry and block since miss didn't work. :D
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Elsie » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:07 am

Mutley wrote:
Majiben wrote:101.8% actually. Man no one remembers that.


And that had to be 101.8% dodge parry and block since miss didn't work. :D

He's talking about rogue tanking, which would be dodge/parry/miss. Not block.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Mutley » Sun Jun 28, 2009 10:33 am

Don't think he was,

From Worldie's Illidan guide

How to avoid Shear: The mechanic of Shear is fairly simple, if the attack is parryed, dodged or blocked, the debuff will not be applied. The skill itself cannot miss, ... You will need 101.8% block+parry+dodge in order be immune to Shear.


So if he was talking about rogues it would be dodge+parry. :)
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby Zeianna » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:40 pm

This thread is infuriating, I can't believe so many people just posted without reading the OP.
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Re: Dodge DR *not the standard question*

Postby jere » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:28 pm

Mutley wrote:Don't think he was,

From Worldie's Illidan guide

How to avoid Shear: The mechanic of Shear is fairly simple, if the attack is parryed, dodged or blocked, the debuff will not be applied. The skill itself cannot miss, ... You will need 101.8% block+parry+dodge in order be immune to Shear.


So if he was talking about rogues it would be dodge+parry. :)


I believe the first couple of rogue tanking videos were of Mother Shazz and Gruul. He was probably referring to the Mother Shazz fight.
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