Blood draining being viable with new AD?

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Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby defeated » Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:07 am

/discuss

I am curious if it will be viable/preferred now if the AD changes stay as they sound currently?

However they really need to amp up the effectiveness of both tank enchants, currently i think they both kinda suck, alot. Other than that though, anyone think it will be decent?
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby Soralin » Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:24 pm

If you'd read the other Blood Draining thread in this forum then you'd know Blood Draining (largely irrespective of AD) is good when you are being hit for small percentages of your HP and fairly bad when you are being hit for large percentages of your HP. Specifically:

Theckhd wrote:[Blood Draining] also doesn't do anything to increase [your survivability] for very large boss hits. Unfortunately, very large boss hits are often what kills a tank, making this an expensive enchant that works best in the cases we don't need it, and worst in the cases we do.


AD changes will not affect this.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby Threatco » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:54 pm

Ill be keeping bladeward.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby vexryn » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:54 pm

Soralin wrote:If you'd read the other Blood Draining thread in this forum then you'd know Blood Draining (largely irrespective of AD) is good when you are being hit for small percentages of your HP and fairly bad when you are being hit for large percentages of your HP. Specifically:

Theckhd wrote:[Blood Draining] also doesn't do anything to increase [your survivability] for very large boss hits. Unfortunately, very large boss hits are often what kills a tank, making this an expensive enchant that works best in the cases we don't need it, and worst in the cases we do.


AD changes will not affect this.



Yes, but Theck wrote that in a world where you could leapfrog the AD 35% threshold. That is no longer the case.

I would expect that when Theck updates his modeling, we'll find that Blood Draining is at least somewhat more viable than it was. Good enough to be highly desirable - we'll see. But the AD changes would absolutely change the equation at least to some extent, because the no-leap-frogging new AD means even "big" boss hits that may be fatal aren't as big as they used to be.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby DisRuptive1 » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:07 pm

Blood Draining changed the points on your health bar where you could expect AD to be leap frogged. AD won't be leap frogged any more but that doesn't mean it will be better in cases where it matters. It still sucks.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby Lave » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:08 am

with 3.2 its different: while we are not affected with ardent defender debuff, any strike that takes us below 35% (or we take while beeing below) is reduced. with that in mind we have one goal while tanking serious stuff: do not let the build in guardian-spirit procc (we loose the damage reduction for 2 minutes after that)
so the perfect scenario is:
    *hit* takes us below 35% (gets reduced)
    we are getting *heal*ed back to a point where we survive the next:
    *hit* takes us below 35% (gets reduced)
    we are getting *heal*ed back to a point where we survive the next:
    *hit* takes us below 35% (gets reduced)
    ... and so on
so with 3.2AD we need enough heal after hits that take us below 35% to withstand the very next one without ADs 2minutes cooldown kicking in
with thats beeing said its not our goal to use ADs-guardianspirit as a cooldown, its our goal to have an 0% uptime for the damage reduction cooldown

blooddraining helps here, no downsides. small regular heals esp. like hots are our friends now
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby badgermonkey » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:25 am

Blood Draining was viable before.

Blood Draining is better now.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby honorshammer » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:11 am

Soralin wrote:If you'd read the other Blood Draining thread in this forum then you'd know Blood Draining (largely irrespective of AD) is good when you are being hit for small percentages of your HP and fairly bad when you are being hit for large percentages of your HP. Specifically:

Theckhd wrote:[Blood Draining] also doesn't do anything to increase [your survivability] for very large boss hits. Unfortunately, very large boss hits are often what kills a tank, making this an expensive enchant that works best in the cases we don't need it, and worst in the cases we do.


AD changes will not affect this.


He wrote that BEFORE he modeled healing into the simulation. After he modeled Real World Healing, he changed his stance to :

Theckhd wrote:
* Adding healing to the equation extends the range in which Blood Draining is useful.
* A good rule of thumb is (AD_Threshold + Incoming_Heals - Boss_Hit_size) > 0. The bigger the value, the better the enchant is.
* Blood Draining never reduces your TTL. The extra AD Leapfrogs it causes will always be at least offset by the extra AD saves it causes.


When the AD threshold is 100% of your hp, AD_Threshold + IncomingHeals - Boss_Hit_size will always be a large number.

Blood Draining is good today, it will be even better with the new AD (assuming it stays unchanged on the PTR)
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby Digren » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:48 am

Threatco wrote:Ill be keeping bladeward.

But Bladeward is crap now and crap later. ~~ To make it good, regular parries (those caused by your parry percent from defense or parry rating) would need to not consume the stack. As it is, bladeward is worse than mongoose.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby majiben » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:06 pm

The PTR is reporting a highly increased proc rate on bladewarding so it may be the premier tanking enchant in 3.2
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby steadypal » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:15 pm

Majiben wrote:The PTR is reporting a highly increased proc rate on bladewarding so it may be the premier tanking enchant in 3.2




yes i can say for sure the proc rate has been increased and im not quite sure but part of me thinks that 5stack SOV might be able to proc it...



30 minutes wws shows 94 times the buff was applied, but i can say that i saw it stack twice quite a few times and even 3 times a couple of times...
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby Melathys » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:36 pm

after seeing blood draining in action, my guild wants to get blood draining for every tank.

Last night in ulduar, it healed me twenty something times for 46k overall. The biggest was a 4.3k crit heal.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby Varmin » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:07 am

I'll keep using Blood Draining unless I see Blade Ward with an insane buff.
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby steadypal » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:50 am

i liked blood draining and i know it is great for progression, but then realized the more awake the healers are on a given night, the less useful that enchant is,,, IMO they should buff it so that it doesnt take 50 seconds to get it up with a 5stack, 10sec ICD on reapplying itself is rather long...



blade warding so far on PTR is proccing ALOT more often, and im chalking that up to i think the 5stack SOV hit also has a chance to proc the wpn enchant, and with a 5stack up, its virtually 2 swings per 1.6 seconds, so that should dbl the proc chance alone right there PPM wise...


did a 30 min WWS report for live and PTR, live it procced 32 times,, and ptr it was something like 72, but i noticed on PTR it had 2 to 3 stacks quite often..


i dont know if that working as intended, so idk..
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Re: Blood draining being viable with new AD?

Postby Auroris » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:51 pm

<_< I'll be keeping my Accuracy.
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