3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Thels » Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:32 am

Being the only paladin does happen to me on occasion. I really do want BoSanct, so I'll have to go without BoK.

I'd preferred if they would've somehow gotten the damage reduction in BoK (Imp BoK somewhere into the prot tree), and the mana regen in RF, but this is still a lot better than nothing.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Rainge » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:47 am

Also wishing Sanc wasn't its own blessing, but I do like that I won't have to choose between mana return and 10% health for heroics and such.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby baleogthefierce » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:29 am

The new change to sanc will give us a teensy threat boost in single-paladin situations as well, since it increases stamina and doesn't just add HP. We get that extra bit of threat scaling from TbtL, so ~30 free spell pwr or so on a 226+ geared tank.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Xanthoren » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:10 pm

Anorian wrote:I really fail to see the point to have 2 blessings that prot wants still, the agi and str provided by kings is still very nice, so I still want both...

why not? Everyone wants kings and one of the other blessings? Melée cries for might/kings, casters want wis/kings. The big difference is that other classes can cover might or wisdom.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Candiru » Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:17 am

Well, and we would quite like might+kings+sanc
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby peglegbob » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:42 am

Zakkarai wrote:I agree with this sentiment. When they removed the rage/runic power components of Sanctuary, it once more began to seem like a tacked-on addition aimed more at the class able to cast it than any of the other raid members. Admittedly, 3% raid-wide damage reduction is cool when you can spare a paladin solely on Sanctuary, but that should be obtainable elsewhere.


There is another ability that provides a 3% damage reduction raid wide, a Disc priests Renewed Hope talent. Sanctuary is much more reliable, but just wanted to point out that Sanc is not the only way to obtain the buff.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby glorfindell » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:04 pm

peglegbob wrote:
Zakkarai wrote:I agree with this sentiment. When they removed the rage/runic power components of Sanctuary, it once more began to seem like a tacked-on addition aimed more at the class able to cast it than any of the other raid members. Admittedly, 3% raid-wide damage reduction is cool when you can spare a paladin solely on Sanctuary, but that should be obtainable elsewhere.


There is another ability that provides a 3% damage reduction raid wide, a Disc priests Renewed Hope talent. Sanctuary is much more reliable, but just wanted to point out that Sanc is not the only way to obtain the buff.


Renewed Hope is actually very reliable. Any Disc Priest worth their raid spot should be casting a Shield at least every 20 seconds. BoSanc is pretty clunky currently, it would be nice if the talent just modified any self-cast Blessing to include the mana regen and added the 3% dmg reduction to a Prot Pally's current aura.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Candiru » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:19 am

Renewed Hope and Blessing of Sanc are NOT exclusive though, so you can have both for 6% less damage taken. (last time I tested.)

Same as Stoneskin Totem and Devotion aura, you get both for a whopping 1800+1200=3k armour boost.

They might be meant to not stack, but they do.

(and any paladin can apply blessing of sanc to the entire raid using dual spec, since 10m blessings don't disapear when you switch spec. It is VERY tedious though.)
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby majiben » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:49 am

If I recall correctly, if you change your spec while at a great distance, say another city, 30 minute blessings stay in place too so a port and a summons could work too.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Candiru » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:13 am

Hmm interesting.

I'm not sure that 2 ports + 10 blessings is quicker than 25 blessings though. My computer takes ages to load Dalaran. I guess you could portal to Stonard and be summoned back. I normally just bless the MT with sanc and ignore the rest (Only tends to happen on Vexaz where I often go healer)
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Nadir » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:48 am

The new Glyph of Holy Wrath (-15 seconds on cooldown) is a nice buff for the Anub'arak encounter. Depending on the difficulty of the heroic 25 mode, it may prove invaluable to keep the two adds per wave constantly stunned with a 15 second Holy Wrath and a 20 second HoJ.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby stroggylos » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:19 pm

Had to comment it somewhere :

Lavanthor talisman turnin into a rather op trinket for a mere heroic drop: Doublin the duration of the "on use" proc u get 450 bv for 40 secs ---- on a 120 secs colldown ... means a rather nice threat boost and a steady melee damage reduction for 1/3 of a fight . 8) 8) 8)
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Wardari » Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:29 am

Anorian wrote:For the love of god, why dont they just give us the mana in righteous fury and dump that stupid sancblessing, or make it a selfbuff or put it in our kings.

I really fail to see the point to have 2 blessings that prot wants still, the agi and str provided by kings is still very nice, so I still want both...



I've seen some other suggestions of what to do with BoS and BoK and the best one I've seen so far:

Remove BoS from the game, new talent replaces it "Improved BoK" that basically bolts on the mana regen and 3% damage reduction to BoK, if you have a Protadin then awesomesauce 3% damage reduction all around, if you don't then you don't loose Kings (if you've only got the one paladin). If there were concerns regarding PvP holy paladins with their new prot/holy spec they could make the mana regen scale with defense, at base 400 defense you get no mana regen, at 540 you get the current 2%.

In regards of the new Argent Defender I'm still very uncomfortable with this, as I still feel a tank that can prevent it's own death without having to do anything feels overpowered, even with loss of AD for 2 minutes the result of a proc. I feel that losing AD for 2 minutes is a big price to pay and would prefer they removed the Guardian Spirit in exchange for something else.

My suggestion would be to keep the current rework of AD - sans guardian spirit effect. We already have a 20% damage reduction in the form of Glyph of salvation, they could either bolt onto this effect "if used upon self does not cause threat reduction" or even just create a minor glyph for this. I feel that the new and improved AD in combination with a 20% reduction would be enough to survive the big hitters like Vezax enrage as i'm currently already doing this when my Divine Protection is on CD, it's just my healers hearts skip a beat if he leapfrogs the current AD and the threat reduction can start to cause a few problems later in the fight after 1-2 uses and a mage forgets to invis :p

If you wanted to get really technical and if the devs thought 20% extra wasn't enough, they could make glyph of salvation a base 20% reduction, with additional reduction scaling with defense value upto a capped value of say 30% for example, or whatver the maths showed was necessary.

I realise a lot of my suggestions involve making things scale with defense, but they're already doing that and I feel its a good way to seperate damage reduction for us in PvE and PvP - hopefully leading for less chance of a nerf based upon something the PvPers are getting upto.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby honorshammer » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:03 am

1. HoSalv glyph is NOT a Tanking cooldown. If you are really using HoSalv on Vezzax and not killing your mages, well I'm not sure I know what to say. Mine would be dead, along with my Warlock and Elemental Shaman. HoSalv Glyph was intended for PVP (and I love it there) and we are using it for a second cooldown because

2. Paladins need a second cooldown. The new AD on the PTR is not Overpowered! At least not in its current form. Yes, the first couple of passes were very strong, but I think they've got it to a point that balanced. Other tanks cooldowns allow them to survive stuff they wouldn't otherwise have survived, and that's precisely what AD does. It's just with AD, you KNOW you would have died otherwise. The other tanks probably would have died as wel IF they didn't pop their second (and sometimes third!) cooldowns.
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Re: 3.2 Protadin Change Compilation

Postby Belarkan » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:25 am

Honorshammer wrote:2. Paladins need a second cooldown. The new AD on the PTR is not Overpowered! At least not in its current form. Yes, the first couple of passes were very strong, but I think they've got it to a point that balanced. Other tanks cooldowns allow them to survive stuff they wouldn't otherwise have survived, and that's precisely what AD does. It's just with AD, you KNOW you would have died otherwise. The other tanks probably would have died as wel IF they didn't pop their second (and sometimes third!) cooldowns.


I don't really feel like getting around 9% more EH for free is a fair thing.
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