AD Changes and Pally MTs

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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Wardari » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:28 am

Tomyris wrote:My question remains: is this the change that we need to bring us into parity with (or even place us ahead of) other tanks in challenging encounters? It feels good to me, but I haven't had the experience of holding Vezax static through Surges or any other current fights where a Pally MT is considered a liability.

I have tanked Vezax on 25 and 10 man and all times required other CDs to be used on me for the enrages my shield wall wasn't up, so Pain Supression, Divine Sacrfice and bubble from our retribution Paladin. We have also used our other tanks on other nights.

Although I feel we definitely need a new cooldown, I don't think the Guardian Spirit effect bolted onto AD is the answer to that problem and I feel the fact that it allows us to totally ignore the RNG failing or healers sleeping every 2 minutes is somewhat overpowered in comparison with the other tanks.

Taking Vezax as the example:

-Blood DK tanks are the kings of this fight currently, high armor, stamina, insane CDs, ability to self heal with Death Strike and shield wall on 1 minute CD. A lot of this is being nerfed to bring DKS back down to the other tanks level, they shouldn't be buffing the other tanks upto the DKs current level.
-Druids are currently in a pretty good position, decent amount of armor and an insane health pool, our druid is breaking 50k health fully buffed now so they've got a massive buffer for which the heals to land. With their new "bear block" and pretty high dodge they're doing good on Vezaz but they only have a last stand and barkskin (20% damage reduction). These guys seem to be more of a soak tank in the enrages in that a dodge trinket and Barkskin plus their huge HP pool usually see them through, but it will cost the healers their mana.
-Warriors, to be honest we haven't used a warrior on this fight a lot but they still mitigate a fair amount of damage with critical block and their strong avoidance. They have to pay the price of glyphs but when done properly with the correct spec they have a 2 minute shield wall and 2 minute last stand that they can stagger to survive the enrages, biggest problem for Warriors right now is threat gen compared to the other tanks.
-Paladins, i'm able to easily survive the enrage with my shield wall up and i'm using my Monarch crab every single enrage due to its awesome 1 minute CD. The problems can occur when this isn't available, even with glyph of salvation which provides the same amount of reduction as Druids barkskin I'm lacking that extra 6-7k health that Druids have and I do run the risk of getting gibbed so we generally just use another CD like pain supp.

Based on what i've written above we certainly need another CD to be level with the other tanks as they don't appear to be reliant on other classes for abilities as we are. Sadly I still don't think Guardian Spirit is what we need. This would save us that gibbing during an enrage when shield wall is on CD, but it heals us back to 30% health and unless the healers are able to keep up with the damage the next one will likely kill us even with the AD change.

I would rather have a CD that i'm required to push to activate, but has a slightly longer lasting effect, or possibly boost the number of points required for AD (so back to 5 points).

I do feel however that the newly reformed AD will do a great deal for our survivability just on it's own as it scales with the damage taken. Lets say for arguements sake vezx will hit a 10/25 man ulduar geared Paladin for 40k during the enrage (it's probably a bit higher, but I want a nice round number) this means with the new AD that the blow will be knocked down to 28k, then addon Glyph of salvation with a further 20% reduction and we're looking at a healable amount of damage.

Even if we say 50k hits during the enrage we're talking 35k after AD and then another 20% after that from salvation.

If they want to give us another CD I'd be happy for them to change the glyph of salvation to "reduces damage taken by 20% and causes no threat reduction if cast on self". It's a 2 minute CD which would stagger nicely with Divine Protection but if they really wanted to be nice they could give us a minor glyph that reduces the CD of HoS by 1 minute.
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