AD Changes and Pally MTs

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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Varmin » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:30 am

I think the 30% reduction for hits taking you below 35% will serve as a very strong "mitigation" cooldown. (Maybe too strong and might get changed to match WotN).
(I'm also assuming it loses it's current form of AD so only reduces the one hit, kinda like the resto shaman talent.)
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Candiru » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:51 am

Lets say I have 40k health and 2k BV, and the boss starts hitting for 42k.

I now take 42k*0.7-2=27.4kk hits.

That means I can nearly take 2 hits while before I was being 1-shot.

I'd call that a pretty strong survival CD... OH WAIT there isn't a cooldown...?
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Solare » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:54 am

Varmin wrote:I think the 30% reduction for hits taking you below 35% will serve as a very strong "mitigation" cooldown. (Maybe too strong and might get changed to match WotN).
(I'm also assuming it loses it's current form of AD so only reduces the one hit, kinda like the resto shaman talent.)

Frankly, reducing one 25k shot I take by 30% is much more useful than reducing the damage on the next attack when it would just kill me anyway (leap-frogging). I'm not going to miss the "indestructible against puny attacks" window of <35% Health. It's the big hits I want reduced.
Candiru wrote:Lets say I have 40k health and 2k BV, and the boss starts hitting for 42k.

I now take 42k*0.7-2=27.4kk hits.

That means I can nearly take 2 hits while before I was being 1-shot.

I'd call that a pretty strong survival CD... OH WAIT there isn't a cooldown...?

That's not a cooldown, it's just a form of armor derived from a different stat.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Candiru » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:17 am

Ah, but not quite. Say the boss is hitting for 60% of my HP, so in this example 24k

health 40k, AD threshold 14k.
-24k = 16k
-24*0.7: -16.8k =0 dead

So the new AD will help prevent you from being one-shot, and help avoid the old leapfrog situations, but won't provide much benefit against attacks in the 55-65% of your HP region. Its not quite the same as having an extra 30% mitigation from armour.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Oldpappa » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:24 am

So, I was doing hard mode Steelbreaker last night --- Man oh man, With these changes, including block, it really would have helped. He hits like a truck.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Jasari » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:26 am

Oldpappa wrote:So, I was doing hard mode Steelbreaker last night --- Man oh man, With these changes, including block, it really would have helped. He hits like a truck.


You wear BV gear on Steelbreaker?
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Nadir » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:59 am

Jasari wrote:
Oldpappa wrote:So, I was doing hard mode Steelbreaker last night --- Man oh man, With these changes, including block, it really would have helped. He hits like a truck.


You wear BV gear on Steelbreaker?


Our T8.5 shoulders and gloves provide a decent amount of stamina over the other (non-hard mode) choices available. That's about the only reason I can see to wear them.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby gmf1 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:06 pm

Tier vs badge gloves shoulders of deconstructor. my maths has been known to be fail.

tier hand shoulders - 12 stam, 36 parry, 24 str, 136 Bv and 37 totally useless wasted stupid block rating

non tier - 84 dodge, 13 def, 92 hit

You do gain more threat, mitigation and hp forom tier but imo not worth it as i love my avoidance. But i don't think i could say it's bad to wear tier just not what i would do.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Nadir » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:29 pm

gmf1 wrote:Tier vs badge gloves shoulders of deconstructor. my maths has been known to be fail.

tier hand shoulders - 12 stam, 36 parry, 24 str, 136 Bv and 37 totally useless wasted stupid block rating

non tier - 84 dodge, 13 def, 92 hit

You do gain more threat, mitigation and hp forom tier but imo not worth it as i love my avoidance. But i don't think i could say it's bad to wear tier just not what i would do.

Yes. The most likely reason for death in your ~30 seconds of taking Steelbreaker is going to be Fusion Punch. The #1 concern is having a mitigation cooldown, the #2 concern is your maximum HP. Also, the DR on parry and dodge is going to be pretty harsh since you're going to have Heart of Iron and Llane active for 20 of that 30 seconds.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Modal » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:59 pm

Varmin wrote:I think the 30% reduction for hits taking you below 35% will serve as a very strong "mitigation" cooldown. (Maybe too strong and might get changed to match WotN).
(I'm also assuming it loses it's current form of AD so only reduces the one hit, kinda like the resto shaman talent.)


Yes. I am assuming it will be changed. If any hit that would take us below 35% is reduced 30%, it will be totally OP. Everyone sees that, and even if there is a slight chance that Blizzard doesn't already intend it to work differently, they'll change it soon enough.

In any case, I assume it's the guardian spirit portion that I assume GC is talking about as helping to solve our CD disparity, not the "non-leap-froggable AD" part. So I'm not talking about that part, which nobody has ever thought of as comparable to a CD before.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Dread » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:19 am

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&pageNo=1

Explains the mechanic behind the new AD as it currently is on the PTR.

In a nutshell, AD will reduce any hit that takes a player below 35% or any hit a player takes while under 35% hp by 30%. Once the player is "killed" and the Guardian Spirit effect is proc'd, the player receives a debuff that lasts for 2 minutes (the CD on the GS effect). During the time that the debuff is active, no damage reduction is provided by AD. Therefore, even hits taken below 35% or those that would take you below 35% now hit for 100% of their damage.

This is an extremely interesting way for the devs to balance AD. It's still an extremely powerful ability, but now there's a "punishment" for allowing the tank to "die". At the same time, the debuff makes the cooldown timing very visible to the player.

The GS effect still does not save players against things that are intended to kill the player (ie Meltdown, falling damage, etc.).
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby badgermonkey » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:51 pm

Yeah, I learned the hard way by jumping off of Dalaran ;)
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Threatco » Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:02 pm

So I see 2 posts about PTR testing. Is there a thread I am missing?

Does the whole hit get mitigated or just the part after 30%?

Can't see official forums at work. Ty very much.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby jere » Sat Jun 27, 2009 1:24 pm

Threatco wrote:So I see 2 posts about PTR testing. Is there a thread I am missing?

Does the whole hit get mitigated or just the part after 30%?

Can't see official forums at work. Ty very much.


It's in a thread titled "Ardent Defender Currently on PTR" on the first page of the general forums.
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Re: AD Changes and Pally MTs

Postby Varmin » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:07 pm

*Ardent Defender: Redesigned. Any damage that takes the paladin below 35% health or below is reduced. This reduction applies only to the portion that pushes the paladin below 35% health (example: a paladin at 50% health takes a 40% hit; the first 15% hits as normal while the next 25% is reduced). In addition, once every 2 minutes an attack that would have killed the paladin will fail to kill, and instead set the paladin's health to 10/20/30% of maximum.


Nerf, but still very strong if they simply leave it like this. If I understand this change correctly, it's just a flat 10.5% EH increase.
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