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BV libram swapping

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BV libram swapping

Postby Magnusharkov » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:08 pm

Has anyone exhaustively tested libram swapping between http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40707 and http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45145

I know that the two effects definitely stack if you:

equip judge libram
judge
equip holy shield libram
cast holy shield
shield slam

But I've yet to figure out any kind of way of macroing them without consuming a GCD, I'm not sure if it's even possible actually. Has anyone investigated it?
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Argali » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:43 pm

Changing equipment now triggers a global cooldown. Healers were abusing weapon changing, so they nerfed it.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Albani » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:02 am

Yes i did some testing on a dummy with the following macros:

/cast Holy Shield
/equip Libram of Obstruction

and

/cast Judgement of Wisdom
/equip Libram of the Sacred Shield

followed by a SoR.

They do stack(getting 8.5k SoR crits w/o any buffs), and it's possible to almost get by the GCD(I estimate that the equip prolonges GCD of your spell by 1/10 sec or so), aswell as increasing dps by around 30.

This was ofc done in near perfect conditions, ie no moving or anything else, and the danger is, that you press your macro, before the spell is off CD, thus equipping the "next" libram and triggering a GCD.

It leaves absolutely no error for mistake, so it's not something i would reccomend in a real raid enviroment.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Amaranthea » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:04 pm

You can macro it to only equip after a successful cast even if you are mashing the button. The downside is that the swapping (as Albani mentioned) is always a tiny bit behind your actual cast, which triggers a new GCD and introduces a little bit of lag into your rotation.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Threatco » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:44 pm

So I should be able to swamp in concencration libram for every tiem i cast that.

And in holy I should be able to swap from +SP to -cost libram.

As ret I could do this too.

ESPECIALY in ret the slight lag in the sequence won't matter since there open GCD's anyways. A boost to every crusder strike and conc cast would be big.

Is anyone using this in raids?
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Amaranthea » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:57 pm

Casts JoW and then equips LotSS:

/cast Judgement of Wisdom
/run local f=RbA or CreateFrame("Frame","RbA") f:SetScript("OnEvent",function(s,e,u,p) if u=="player" and p=="Judgement of Wisdom" then EquipItemByName("Libram of the Sacred") end end) f:RegisterEvent("UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED")


Casts Holy Shield and equips LOO:

/cast Holy Shield
/run local f=RbA or CreateFrame("Frame","RbA") f:SetScript("OnEvent",function(s,e,u,p) if u=="player" and p=="Holy Shield" then EquipItemByName("Libram of Obstruction") end end) f:RegisterEvent("UNIT_SPELLCAST_SUCCEEDED")

Both macros are spammable and won't switch your libram early.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby majiben » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:44 pm

I've heard reports that libram swapping resets the swing timer. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Amaranthea » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:25 am

Majiben wrote:I've heard reports that libram swapping resets the swing timer. Can anyone confirm or deny this?


Confirm. You won't really gain threat by libram swapping; I'd only use it on fights where you want maximum mitigation while standing in one spot mashing 969 (or judging every 8 for increased LOO uptime on a fight where threat isn't relevant).
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Nadir » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:00 am

How much of a threat loss is the swing reset versus ~457.6 more damage (assuming you were using LoSS initially) on every Shield of Righteousness? From Omen eyeballing it looks that the GCD lag introduced by the Libram switch produces a 500-1000 TPS loss.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby baleogthefierce » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:06 pm

If you are running with a 20% haste buff, you will not see much of a DPS loss from your white damage swings being reset. Since tank weapon speeds are so fast, after the initial swing reset, you will always get a single white attack in between each of your abilities with a little bit of the next swing wasted. For a 1.6 weapon (swinging at 1.28 with raid haste), that's 0.22 seconds of every GCD that is wasted. If you consider your white damage as (generously) between 500-1000 DPS, that's a 17% loss, or 85-170 DPS lost as a result.

Obviously you aren't resetting the swing timer on every single GCD, so your real loss over the course of a full 969 (until the libram swaps come back up) looks more like:

Rotation: Judge -> ShoR -> HS -> HotR -> Cons -> ShoR -> Judge -> etc.
(reset) 2.54s (2) (reset) 5.12s (4) (reset)

So if you account for a complete rotation until your libram swap macros come off CD again, you lose 1.34s of white swing DPS time, or 670-1340 damage over the 9 sec cycle, which translates to 74.4-148.8 DPS lost while swapping.

So in a perfect world, libram swapping should be an epic win for TPS, about equal for DPS, and better for mitigation. Sadly, lag from the libram swap slows down your ACTUAL 969, and from experience I've found that unless my latency is < 100ms I get similar results to Nadir's.

So I guess if for some reason you NEED extra mitigation provided by swapping you can go for it without too big of a TPS hit IF your latency is low and you have the melee haste buff. I find that libram swapping can be marginally better for threat gen only in low latency situations; otherwise you're better off just using LSS.
Last edited by baleogthefierce on Thu Jul 02, 2009 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Nadir » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:21 pm

Well, unless they patch it, we may be able to use three librams. :lol:

From MMOChampion:
* Paladin T9 Protection Relic (Hammer of The Righteous) (Class: Paladin) -- Each time you use your Hammer of The Righteous ability, you have a chance to gain 200 dodge rating for 18 sec.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Amaranthea » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:53 pm

Nadir wrote:Well, unless they patch it, we may be able to use three librams. :lol:

From MMOChampion:
* Paladin T9 Protection Relic (Hammer of The Righteous) (Class: Paladin) -- Each time you use your Hammer of The Righteous ability, you have a chance to gain 200 dodge rating for 18 sec.


Haha yes, that's the first thing I thought when I saw that new libram too.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby ítank » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:42 pm

I'm not sure if anyone has actually tired Libram swapping, But once you un-equip the libram, you lose the buff it gives you, making libram swapping to stack those buffs up quite ineffective.

As far as i can see, the only good effective use of libram swapping is going to be the T9 one once we find out it's internal CD.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Iselian » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:52 pm

From a bit of dabbling on the PTR (lag was horrible, didn't last long) the new libram seemed to have no internal CD. It had a duration of 20 seconds, sometimes falling off entirely and sometimes refreshing itself at 13 seconds (the next hammer use after the initial). I'll try to test more, but it's been a pain for me to get in.
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Re: BV libram swapping

Postby Seloei » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:45 pm

Tried out the libram swaping idea in raids because it worked almost perfect on a training dummy and i was constantly losing GCD's due to the libram being swapped in because i was 0.1s too early in pressing the button. Result : no benefit from either librams and a huge TPS loss to the point that i almost lost agro on flame leviathan base where i usually have a 40% lead by the end of p1.
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