need help with jump to uldar + 3.1.2 and 'blocking'

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need help with jump to uldar + 3.1.2 and 'blocking'

Postby Canel » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:22 am

Firstly hello all thanks for viewing my post, my grammar and spelling is really bad but please try to understand me out :)

Armory link : http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... e+Ascended

We are a 10man raid guild atm btw.
Ive found tanking naxx isnt any kind of problem for me...i puged 25 2 times now...1st time was a OT...2nd time was MT. i also had no issues tanking a 25 naxx except Saph....he, well pwnd me bad.....i didnt know why but yeah.

now the jump to uldar is different for me, im finding every mob prety much is somewhat Saph....
last uld run after every death i found i would be blocking most the time and heals couldn't keep up, our druid OT was dodging pretty much everything.

thats my small story so now the questions:

1)iv noticed alot of pallys having such a small block chance, it makes sence but my rotations inc holy shield (even on bosses...is this wrong?) i also read somewhere i should still try and keep a high block rating but not a value (so if i block i still will block hard)

2) now i kno my gear isnt the best....depends when you look at it....when i posted it, i has wearing my older gear with less block and more dodge because like i said ulder bosses and adds pwned me through blocking...
So my second main question is: ive seen tanks in 213 sets and still less HP then me...so am i stacking HP too much atm and not the dodge parry, raid buffed not pots im about 36-38 (war shout too 37-39)

keep in mind my goals are to tank uldar 10man atm. We down like 4 only but better then none and we are 10 man guild so can do 25s and 10 naxx isnt worth our time anymore. so we are just trying uld for the best gear we can get from it.
Also like i said a average about 36k hp in raid 10man uld....is this enough or with my stats should i lower it to make my dodge and things higher.

Really i just think ive stacked Block gear alot and now are not dodging and parrying so now loosing too much HP in combat

If you skipped all i said then just answer this...to be a liable MT/OT in uldar 10man what do i need to fix.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... e+Ascended

thank you


ps edit...like i said i seen alot of pallys with alot lower block chance for uldar tanking....does this mean i dont use holy sheild?

this whole topic is scaring me out of tanking TBH...i can pull multiple mobs in 10man naxx and AoE pwn tank em all and be a home tanking naxx......now 1 ad in uldar kills me and OT has to pick them up (not inc boss ads just like trash)
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Re: need help with jump to uldar + 3.1.2 and 'blocking'

Postby moduspwnens » Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:40 am

Canel wrote:1)iv noticed alot of pallys having such a small block chance, it makes sence but my rotations inc holy shield (even on bosses...is this wrong?) i also read somewhere i should still try and keep a high block rating but not a value (so if i block i still will block hard)

The reason for this is that since crushing blows have been removed, blocking hasn't been for very much. In Naxx it wasn't bad, but stuff hits pretty hard in Ulduar. Not only that, but for every stat you put into block rating/value, a DK is stacking more avoidance, health, or threat.

Also, I think you have them backwards. Block rating = how often you block. Block value = how much you block for.

It's good to be block capped either way, though, and it's important to try to not go over it. You can see how close you are by adding up the following numbers:

5% (Base miss)
+ Miss % from Defense (hover over defense on your character sheet)
+ Dodge %
+ Parry %
+ Block %
+ 30% (Holy Shield)
The number you're shooting for (raid buffed) is 102.4%. Raid buffs generally give ~4% avoidance, so unbuffed you should be around 98.4%. If you're there, then with Holy Shield up, every hit will be either miss, dodge, parry or block. Also, all additional block rating at this point becomes useless. As you gear up, it'll become easier and easier to reach that point with more avoidance and less block. So, naturally, you'll see more Tankadins with less block on their gear and more avoidance.

And yes, you should always have Holy Shield up, even for bosses.

Canel wrote:2) now i kno my gear isnt the best....depends when you look at it....when i posted it, i has wearing my older gear with less block and more dodge because like i said ulder bosses and adds pwned me through blocking...
So my second main question is: ive seen tanks in 213 sets and still less HP then me...so am i stacking HP too much atm and not the dodge parry, raid buffed not pots im about 36-38 (war shout too 37-39)


It's pretty tough to stack too much Stamina, especially as a Paladin. Generally Paladins enchant for whatever gives the most stats for the slot and gem for Stamina with the occasional hybrid gem to meet good bonuses.
I rule.
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Re: need help with jump to uldar + 3.1.2 and 'blocking'

Postby Loevon » Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:04 am

Unfortunately right now block is more of a passive mitigation that you shouldn't worry about. Just let it naturally go up from your strength and tier set (if you plan on using that) and focus on health and avoidance.


From your first question, you either have your block stats backwards or you were miss informed. As a Paladin, you want to reach 102.4 avoidance with Holy Shield up. It's not 100% required but it assures 100% block chance vs a single target and allows 1k-1500 damage off of each hit. You can figure out if you have reached that with the following macro:

/script dr=function(x)return 1/(1/16+0.9560/x)end;DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Need 102.4 combat table coverage. Currently at: "..string.format("%.2f", GetDodgeChance()+GetBlockChance()+GetParryChance()+5+dr(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/122.962)))


Now after you reach 102.4, all block RATING after is completely useless (unless you are doing AE tanking) and you should avoid it, and items that give you block rating, but no block value (your BP is a perfect example).

As for your second question, it's kind of up to you. The general rule is that if you are being killed in 1-2 hits, stack more hp. If you can survive that, then get more avoidance. If you are still dying, then your healers probably are bad.
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Re: need help with jump to uldar + 3.1.2 and 'blocking'

Postby Corpsicle » Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:39 am

The jump from 10 man Nax to 10 man Ulduar is sort of a rude awakening, especially if you are doing it in 10 man nax gear. The good news is that the gear drops from farming even just the first several bosses are very nice and will get you set for the rest of the zone. You should also consider clearing 10 man Emalon and 10 man Malygos each week - Emalon has tier 8 and Malygos has some very nice caster drops as well as a shield that would be a good upgrade for you. Malygos also hits pretty hard and has movement and positioning requirements, high dps requirements, and intensive healing requirements, if you haven't been killing him it would be a good training ground so to speak for bosses in Ulduar.

Stat wise you show at 23% dodge 17% parry 30k hp and 544 defense. This is pretty good for starting Ulduar 10 man, especially without a full set of 213 level gear. I would focus on stacking dodge and parry from here out but try to maintain 30k hp unbuffed. Most bosses and some trash hit like Saph did, some harder. Armor will also help you, seems the largest hits I take in Ulduar are all physical hits, with very few exceptions. You should stop adding block rating, get your block value as you can through strength and a few well itemized pieces.

Now, talk to your healers about how they heal you too. In Nax 10 your healers can watch for you to take damage and then heal reactively. It isn't the ideal way to do it, but it is likely you wouldn't die since nothing in Nax hits terribly hard except for Saph after all - this made block value pretty good and made reactive healing less bad. If your healers are still healing reactively in Ulduar, you will take a lot of dirt naps as bosses often hit for 15k to 20k. If it helps, tell your healers it is like healing a 25 man hateful strike tank on Patchwerk. High incoming damage that comes in fast and will take off at least 50% of your total health, if not more and that needs to be healed up quickly before another hit can land.

One thing about block rating: It is the first stat to fall off the attack table once you reach 102.4% - that is why it is considered useless at that point. You'll see pallies in high end gear with only 15% block because when they have holy shield up they have 45% block, and with 55% or 60% avoidance in high end gear, you don't benefit from having more than 45% block rating unless you are tanking a pack of mobs that can eat through all of your holy shield charges before you can reapply it.
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Re: need help with jump to uldar + 3.1.2 and 'blocking'

Postby Conaan! » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:45 am

start to get rid of your BV gear, thats all i can tell you, things like replacing your gloves with t7 (or t8 if it drops), replacing your legs with sarth/maly 25 legs, trying to get helm of vital protection out off naxx25 or thanes out of naxx10, getting the valor badge boots, getting the sword of truth off gothik in 10 man...

alot of upgrades you can get outside of ulduar to help you smooth it with your healers, just got to keep reminding your healers, this isnt naxx, this is actually progression now
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