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Lets talk about hit

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Lets talk about hit

Postby Oldpappa » Sun May 24, 2009 4:57 pm

Hit Rating
32.79 hit rating = +1% chance to hit with melee or ranged attacks (-1% chance to miss).
For our purposes, this applies to melee swings (white damage), Avenger's Shield, Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of Righteousness, Hammer of Wrath, and Judgements.
Against a raid boss, melee and ranged attacks have a base 8% chance to miss (this is changed from TBC, where ti was 9%), so 263 hit rating is required to eliminate all melee misses if there are no other bonuses to hit.
Draenei have a racial aura that gives +1% to hit. This reduces the requirement for melee hit-capping to 230 hit rating if you're a draenei or have one in your group. (This is group-only buff, not a raidwide buff.)
26.23 hit rating = +1% chance to hit with spells. For our purposes, this only applies to Righteous Defense.
Against a raid boss, spells have a base 17% chance to miss. In the past, some bosses that required frequent taunting and tank-switching (e.g., Nalorakk, Mother Shahraz, and Brutallus) had only a base 9% chance to resist a taunt. It's not known whether that will continue to be the case.
The Draenei racial aura also applies to spells, as do the Misery and Improved Faerie Fire debuffs (+3% to hit with spells, only one of these can be present).
The Glyph of Righteous Defense reduces the miss chance of Righteous Defense by 8%.
It's not worth going through all the combinations of buffs and debuffs and the hit rating required to cap spells for each, but a few are worth noting:
If you have no other buffs and no RD glyph, 446 hit rating is required to reach the hit cap for RD.
If you have the RD glyph, only 236 hit rating is required to cap RD. This is less than the hit rating required to hit-cap melee attacks, so once you reach the melee hit cap, the glyph will safely put you over the top for RD as well.
If you really want to cap RD without using a glyph slot, the best possible case is to have a Draenei around (+1%), and to have Improved Faerie Fire or Misery up on the mob (+3% hit bonus, only one can apply). This reduces the miss chance to 13%, which would only require 341 hit rating to cap (111 more than the melee hit cap.)


So, this is from EJ forums on Pally Tanks - pretty standard stuff. We have a couple of threads talking about hit, etc...

What I would like to discuss is the actual Hit people run through Ulduar with and how it varies depending on what your role is and the particular boss fight, or if you just roll the same no matter what you are doing. What I am trying to get at is a sense of how tankadins value hit? Our gear is a series of tradeoffs, stam, avoidance, hit, expertise, block...

I did Ulduar last week with 5% hit unbuffed... I can tell you that I was not comfortable at all with that number, not only did I see a dip in my threat, but I missed taunts and had what I felt was too high a miss rate ... 18% righteous shield misses on Freya. So what do you roll with, are folks out there targeting more of a 6-7% range?
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Nehor » Sun May 24, 2009 6:10 pm

I eat hit food to help boost my rating. I find that I have more "control" over the situation when I am not missing so much. I have not done much experamenting with varying the type of food I eat just ebcause when I add tank there may be times when I will suddnely have to boss tank and then it is too late to change your food buff.

Just some thoughts,
Cowards die many times before thier death, the valiant taste of death only once.

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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Athanasîa » Sun May 24, 2009 11:54 pm

I actually run with only 4% hit. I know this is very low but when i look at my wws they tell me that I only miss 1-2%. Don't know if it's just luck or something else. So yesterday I hitted 419 shotr and missed 10 overall and also 983 hotr hits with 11 misses...
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Lave » Mon May 25, 2009 4:29 am

Athanasîa wrote:I actually run with only 4% hit. I know this is very low but when i look at my wws they tell me that I only miss 1-2%. Don't know if it's just luck or something else. So yesterday I hitted 419 shotr and missed 10 overall and also 983 hotr hits with 11 misses...

nothing wrong here. youre just 1% away from beeing hitcapped vs. trash and 4% vs. bosses (with hotr, shor that is) so your expectet misschance is anywere between 1-4%
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Oldpappa » Mon May 25, 2009 8:15 am

So, taken from WoWWIKI - mele hit cap

v. Level 80 mob: 5.0% / dual-wield: 24%
v. Level 81 mob: 5.2% / dual-wield: 24.2%
v. Level 82 mob: 5.4% / dual-wield: 24.4%
v. Level 83 mob: 8.0% / dual-wield: 27%


Now because some of our abilities are spell driven - the hit you would need for cap (from WoWWiki)

v. Level 80 mob 105 hit rating
v. Level 81 mob 132 hit rating
v. Level 82 mob 158 hit rating
v. Level 83 mob 446 hit rating

Look at that huge leap for a boss for spells - So, if we are talking trash / adds - I'm thinking that having a hit rating of 5.4% is really the target - if we are talking bosses then, Probably the closer you are to 8% the better (to a point)

So, the quesiton is , if your MTing ... how much do you ideally want to target for a hit rating, and what trade-off gear would you look at

for example the Badge belt vs. the unbreakable belt - In essence Stam vs. Hit
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Tekkel » Mon May 25, 2009 8:43 am

I generally try and run with around 6% hit rating. I usually also get a draenei and we got the 3% hit buff on the boss all the time.
WWS gives different results here and there but when you attack a boss the first hit and no debuff is on you can get that miss in your wws easily.
However around 6% makes me feel comfortable. The stat I don't really look at is expertise. Closer to the dodge cap is good but not really getting different gear equipped for it. For hit there's enough pieces here and there to use. The only tank gear set that lacks hit is a pure BV set.
You only ever get a dip if your shield misses in the first 10-15 sec.
Taunt misses are happening on bosses but since we got a backup taunt now it generally works. Not like there's that many bosses that require a taunt. Razor, Kolo, Thorim come to mind. And of those only Thorim has the habit of failing on rd taunt due to not having the other tank selected.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Oldpappa » Mon May 25, 2009 9:06 am

It was on Mimiron P1 when I was taunting to tank the boss after he started plasma blast that I got uncomfortable misses that made me question my hit. I agree, a target of 6% seems like a reasonable compromise. Other thoughts out there?
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby fuzzygeek » Mon May 25, 2009 9:21 am

At this point, gearing (or buffing) for hit would require me to trade either avoidance or stam, neither of which I'm willing to give up at this point.

My threat is still fine, and none of the strats we employ hinge on taunts (I solo tank Mimiron (with a 3 CD rotation) and Hodir; we've not had problems with taunting Thorim). I personally have HoReck bound to shift-R and RD to R, so it's easy to "double taunt" as it were, in critical taunt situations.

Hit's nice if it comes with the gear, but I wouldn't take the badge belt over the crafted, or the dropped boots over the crafted.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Spamdrew » Mon May 25, 2009 9:29 pm

Remember that we have 2 taunts now and the chance of both of them missing assuming no hit at all is .17*.17= 2.89% chance. If you just have the 3% spell hit debuff on the boss this drops to 1.96% thus you shouldn't worry to much about taunt misses as a general rule (bosses becoming immune to taunt aside). In terms of threat unless you must have that snap agro strength is always (in currently available gear) better for agro than hit so when given the option go strength for threat.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Jasari » Tue May 26, 2009 6:15 am

I don't think too much about hit. Threat is very rarely an issue, and when it is, we get far more benefit from strength (which is why I keep my DMC and some high str/BV pieces on me). Hit is valuable for making sure taunts don't miss, but on fights where a taunt is critical I just mash HoReck followed by RD. Even if they each had a 10% chance to miss, I'd only have a 1% chance for them both to miss. And even in the rare circumstance where they both miss, hopefully the other tank will be able to hit CDs and survive a few seconds until I can taunt again. Four Horseman is the only fight I've wiped on because of a missed taunt (in recent memory) so far and that's a special circumstance since RD is almost worthless.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Nadir » Wed May 27, 2009 1:09 pm

With taunt DRs occurring so rapidly, having to taunt twice twice in a row is dangerous on a fight like Thorim.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Worldie » Wed May 27, 2009 1:14 pm

Nadir wrote:With taunt DRs occurring so rapidly, having to taunt twice twice in a row is dangerous on a fight like Thorim.

Missed taunt doesn't trigger DR.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Nadir » Wed May 27, 2009 1:19 pm

Worldie wrote:
Nadir wrote:With taunt DRs occurring so rapidly, having to taunt twice twice in a row is dangerous on a fight like Thorim.

Missed taunt doesn't trigger DR.

Oh, good to know.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Arees » Wed May 27, 2009 2:27 pm

Worldie wrote:Missed taunt doesn't trigger DR.


Are you sure about that? We got a few new recruits in our guild this week and were doing a fast naxx 25 run. On Raz I was holding all the extra adds so that the priests could just bring them to me, release MC, I taunt and pick up the adds while priest MCs a new one. Well, RD missed and before I can use HoR the DK taunts the mob because he ran for the priest. I tried to use HoR to taunt back from the DK and I got an immune message.
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Re: Lets talk about hit

Postby Worldie » Wed May 27, 2009 3:12 pm

It totally doesnt trigger DR or Thorim would have killed me *many* times.

I bet this DK used Dark Command and Death Grip at same time, i've seen so many stupid DKs doing this.
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