Remove Advertisements

Def cap and block cap

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby Nadir » Tue May 05, 2009 5:46 am

Does your base 400 defense skill contribute the same amount of block & avoidance the 140 defense skill from gear? A naked 80 Paladin (with basic shield of course) on Rawr only has 17.6% avoidance+block. I assume the first 140 you lose is going to be the gear variety, but the last 60 is eating into your inherent defense skill.
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby ulushnar » Tue May 05, 2009 5:55 am

Sort of.

The base 400 Defense Skill doesn't count to the additional block/parry/dodge, 400 is considered the baseline for a level 80 character. When you're at 340 Defense skill, you're essentially the same as a level 68 player to the boss (well, without crushes), meaning he has about an 8% chance of critting you. When you're at 540 defense, you're essentially the same as a level 108 player to the boss, so he has no chance of critting you.

Not the best explaination, I'll admit.
Be careful when you argue with trolls, lest you become one.
User avatar
ulushnar
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5442
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 6:56 am
Location: Bollocks, Scotland

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby Nadir » Tue May 05, 2009 6:25 am

Hmm, even in a heavy block rating set, you only get up to ~128.5% block+avoidance. Rawr seems a bit buggy though. It displays 584 block rating as only giving 45.62% with holy shield active. I think it should be 65.63%. :?:

I bet you could get to 130% if they'd add a block rating gem. :lol:
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby theothersteve7 » Tue May 05, 2009 7:12 am

Critical hits are higher on the table than blocks. If you are block capped, you can take an unblocked critical hit.

The reason why you end up with a lot of people wondering if 540 is optional is because a geared tank can take a crit if they are topped off. Also, <1% chance to be crit means that it's unlikely to cause a wipe immediately. It's still top priority to be uncrittable, but it isn't as blatantly obvious as people have come to think of it.

Closing thought: I'd trade a 1% chance to be crit to double my HP.
Moo.
theothersteve7
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:45 am

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby Sophistie » Tue May 05, 2009 7:51 am

In fact I did sort of "solotank" thorim hard mode up to ~ 15 charges - that is, with no tank switch except when I died (not due to a crit but to an unlucky string of hard-mode related events, involving fb volleys/novas + strike + melee over ~0.10s).

I looked at my combined avoidance when under the effect of Unbalancing Strike and it was like ~90% (and I was yet wearing pure EH gear, not blocking gear). In fact this whole "can I throw the def cap away" thing came up to me when I noticed I was critted like once a night by thorim while my DK mate died to a crit at every pull.


Also, don't forget that DR on dodge/parry/miss most probably reapply after the unbalancing strike, so that it's not because 200 def is X% less avoidance that you need to reach 100+X% combined avoidance without it (am I clear ?).

(And btw yes, we killed him - to my opinion a some point of the fight at least 1 tank is supposed to die and soulstone/brez, so that's not too much waiting for the lucky "I won't get critted" try. We had only 1 wipe due to tank dying in late P2.)
Sophistie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:08 pm

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby Nadir » Tue May 05, 2009 8:14 am

You were at at 90% block+avoidance under the effect of Unbalancing Strikes. :shock: What are you at normally when raid buffed? If this is the true, then it seems entirely possible that you can still maintain 102.4% under the effect of unbalancing with a few gear swaps.
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby Sophistie » Tue May 05, 2009 8:17 am

I'll check it out more precisely during the next lockout. I think it was like 87% + 3% via miss debuff (sting/swarm), fully buffed (agi food and so on).

EDIT : You're making me doubt strongly. I'll definitely check it out next lockout. :oops:
Sophistie
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 6:08 pm

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby agnara » Tue May 05, 2009 10:46 am

theothersteve7 wrote:Critical hits are higher on the table than blocks. If you are block capped, you can take an unblocked critical hit.
No, Block is prioritized ahead of critt. Miss => Dodge => Parry => (Glancing blow, only againts NPCs) => Block => Critt => Crush => hit


Ulushnar wrote:The base 400 Defense Skill doesn't count to the additional block/parry/dodge, 400 is considered the baseline for a level 80 character. When you're at 340 Defense skill, you're essentially the same as a level 68 player to the boss (well, without crushes), meaning he has about an 8% chance of critting you. When you're at 540 defense, you're essentially the same as a level 108 player to the boss, so he has no chance of critting you.


As far as I know you should get crushed by the boss, but I haven't tanked the boss yet so it might be that they just disabled Crushes for it.
Image
User avatar
agnara
 
Posts: 236
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:59 am
Location: Somewhere, thinking about something, most likely off-topic.

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby amh » Wed May 06, 2009 2:50 am

Err, slightly off-topic ;)

http://chardev.org/?template=175602

Requires JC + BS

Should be around 100,12% toward passive uncrush, depending on amount of miss provided (assumed 10% here). Might have missed a few pieces where avoidance > block-rating, but meh.

And for laughs, just convert to warrior and become passively uncrushable. Afk Garr-time?

http://chardev.org/?template=175602
I used to play a paladin.
User avatar
amh
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 3012
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 6:25 am
Location: Oh hi

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby lythac » Wed May 06, 2009 3:13 am

Nadir wrote:Rawr seems a bit buggy though. It displays 584 block rating as only giving 45.62% with holy shield active. I think it should be 65.63%. :?:


Lat time I used Rawr it only displays up to 100%, doesn't show any wasted block. Does this set you are looking at have 54.38% Avoidance?
Ryshad / Lythac of <Heretic> Nagrand-EU
User avatar
lythac
Moderator
 
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby Nadir » Thu May 07, 2009 7:51 pm

I went from 136.59% block+av to 112.59% block + av after Unbalancing Strike. Fun thing is that at 13 charges on hard mode you can still get gibbed while uncritable. I hate this fight.

A decrease of 24% block+avoidance suggests that he's only lowering your block+avoidance by whatever gear based defense skill you have rather than lowering your block+avoidance by the equivalent of 200 defense skill, which would be 32%.

123.4% avoidance+block while raid buffed seems attainable.
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby majiben » Sat May 09, 2009 10:04 pm

Your macro is not taking into account the loss in miss which is why it appears that you have only lost 24% avoidance+block.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby Nadir » Sun May 10, 2009 8:06 pm

I used:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))

So CR_DEFENSE_SKILL doesn't update to whatever the current amount is after Unbalancing Strikes?
Image
Nadir
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 8:37 am

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby majiben » Mon May 11, 2009 9:03 pm

Nadir wrote:I used:

/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))

So CR_DEFENSE_SKILL doesn't update to whatever the current amount is after Unbalancing Strikes?

The bolded portion is the assumed 5% base miss and the CR_DEFENSE_SKILL gets your defense rating
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Re: Def cap and block cap

Postby lirael » Tue May 12, 2009 1:47 pm

HI I have tried the macro above and it gets me to 71.4%...

Here is my armory:
http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet ... r&n=Lirael

is the macro right? I

Thanks
Paladin 70
Image
lirael
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:58 am

PreviousNext

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?