What am i doing wrong?

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What am i doing wrong?

Postby Holynite-bloodhoof » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:27 pm

I have been tanking everything since lich king came out, ive tanked every fight except sarth 3d, and ive tanked 6 of the bosses in ulduar, but my problem is i cant grab agro fast enough, it takes me longer than other tanks to grab it it seams. after a full rotation about 10 seconds i dont lose it, but in those first few seconds im struggling....

what am i doing wrong? heres my armory..maybe its my rotation or something

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=Holynite
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Spamdrew » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:38 pm

Well first thing is that Crusade is better threat than both conviction and sanctity of battle. Apart from that you are currently wearing Easter stuff so it is hard to tell. It is possible that you have been unlucky with a couple of misses early in your rotation but honestly I can't see why you would be having a problem.
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Lightstrike » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:58 pm

How are you pulling, and with what are you having trouble with?

I.e. Is it single mobs or packs?

Essentially if you have trigger happy ranged dps, it's a good trick to pull a pack with exorcism and smack em with avengers shield as they get close, followed by a consecrate, this way the slow from avengers shield doesnt give the ranged dps too much time to get extra threat on the mobs..

As far as spec goes, the point in benediction is better spent in improved judgement, and as said by the guy above me, 3 points in crusade is a far better choice than what you have right now.

You need to drop glyph of consecration... badly. It is a horrible glyph for prot and puts the 9696 rotation out of sync.
Also, glyph of RD isn't actually that good anymore. Basically it seems you never upgraded your glyphs to 3.1 standards... Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous and Glyph of Divine Plea are the best choices right now. glyph of HotR will help a lot with aoe threat.

If you aren't using the 9696 rotation, you should be, and this will be the major flaw in your threat generation..

Paladins have amazing burst threat potential, and if the dps are treating every fight like a timed boss fight nuking as early as possible, you need to tell them to calm down or at least MD or TotT you.

Essentially with 9696 rotation, it depends on the number of mobs and how far away they are and how you pull, too many variables to give an exact rotation...

As a general rule of thumb, for single targets open up with judgement then ShoR. For AoE, Consecrate and HotR.

Depending on the distance though, for example.. one mob may be ahead of the pack, you would ShoR that one and cast your '9' before the rest catch up and then you HotR.

That's all there is to it really...
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Holynite-bloodhoof » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:29 pm

sorry about that i was online doing the event, it should show my correct gear now.

I have porblems both picking up fast agro on single targets and on groups.
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Mert » Fri May 01, 2009 2:35 am

Righteous Fury and Seal of Vengeance always on, pull with Captain America, lay a Conc for them to run into, hit skull with HotR, Judge, Shield Slam, Holy Shield, HotR, Conc, 96969 etc. You really shouldn't be having trouble if you're doing all those things. If skull gets away from you it probably means the DPS opened up too early. If anything other than skull gets away from you it probably means that the DPS didn't attack skull.

Sometimes in places like Naxx where AoE is king the non-skull targets will run off toward the DPS due to the AoE spam, but be ready with your taunt, DP or RD and you should be fine. Don't forget that you can cast RD on the mob and it will act exactly as though you'd selected the mob's target and used it which might make it quicker.

The fact that you had Glyph of Conc though indicates to me that you weren't doing your rotation properly. Read the threads here about "969" and get used to doing that. Also never underestimate the glue-like threat power of Seal of Vengeance, especially if you talent Seals of the Pure (tier 1 Holy - 5 points).
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Holynite-bloodhoof » Fri May 01, 2009 5:34 am

i was told taking the talents in seals of the pure wanst as good as taking the talents in the ret tree, what glyph do you recommend me taking consecrate off for?
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Varmin » Fri May 01, 2009 5:50 am

Holynite-bloodhoof wrote:i was told taking the talents in seals of the pure wanst as good as taking the talents in the ret tree, what glyph do you recommend me taking consecrate off for?


Seals of the Pure is not as much threat as the ret talents.
I would recommend grabbing Glyph of Divine Plea in place of consecrate.

As lighting said, though paladins have some of the best threat, burst/sustained. Your dps needs to learn to wait a few seconds before dpsing.

I always pull with a AS -> exo -> judge -> ShoR and I always have plenty of threat. (Also make sure you are using a correct 96969 rotation, you can check Knaughty's FAQs for that)
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Jasari » Fri May 01, 2009 5:55 am

Holynite-bloodhoof wrote:i was told taking the talents in seals of the pure wanst as good as taking the talents in the ret tree, what glyph do you recommend me taking consecrate off for?


Go through the basic training and advanced training forums and read through all the stickies. Not to be mean, but you are clearly a novice at prot paladining and those forums have excellent information that will help you learn the fundamentals. After you've read those threads, then ask for clarifications, I promise 99% of any questions you have right now have already been answered.
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby theothersteve7 » Fri May 01, 2009 6:00 am

You're not using a 969 rotation. You have the Glyph of Consecrate. Read up on that. I recommend Glyph of Divine Plea to replace it.

Why are you using Repelling Charge but not a Monarch Crab? Crab is pretty much a strict upgrade.
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Holynite-bloodhoof » Fri May 01, 2009 6:18 am

I needed the extra defense boost, should i grab the crab and gem it with defense gems? reading up now, ive read a lot some of it i understand some of it i dont, i know im a novice, thats why i came here lookin for info, im reading hte forum on the 969 rotation, but was wondering if i should be using exorcism for extra dps and threat? and should i use hand of the reck in the begging to help grab threat or should the pull be enough? and just saved hand for when a mob runs a stray? or do you toss it in there for extra dps/tps when u know you wont need it for adds?
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Jasari » Fri May 01, 2009 6:25 am

Holynite-bloodhoof wrote:I needed the extra defense boost, should i grab the crab and gem it with defense gems? reading up now, ive read a lot some of it i understand some of it i dont, i know im a novice, thats why i came here lookin for info, im reading hte forum on the 969 rotation, but was wondering if i should be using exorcism for extra dps and threat? and should i use hand of the reck in the begging to help grab threat or should the pull be enough? and just saved hand for when a mob runs a stray? or do you toss it in there for extra dps/tps when u know you wont need it for adds?


I would take you more seriously if you used capital letters and correct punctuation.

Everything you've asked has been answered, although some of it is probably buried in the theorycrafting threads.

That said, exorcism isn't worth using *most* of the time in a standard rotation as it's lower DPS/TPS than your default 969 spells. I see no reason to use HoReck unless you have to. Spamming it would result in negligible DPS/TPS and since taunts are on DR now it could cause some serious problems if another tank needed to pick up the boss for whatever reason.

As for needing defense, you chose 10 stats over 22 defense to chest, you chose 18 stam over 20 defense to shield and you have a hit/stam gem in your chest instead of a defense/stam gem in your chest. Those are all very poor choices if you're making sacrifices elsewhere to gain defense.

Again, I suggest rereading all the stickied threads. I'm not sure how you still have these questions if you truly read the guides people have posted.
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Holynite-bloodhoof » Mon May 04, 2009 5:36 pm

I have not read all of the threads, but i have read some, it seams like some of the information is out of date and there is a lot of information to sort through trying to find out whats current, and whats the most accurate now.

At the time when i got my enchants I was over the defense cap and short on health, but now I could go back and change them, I just never really though the crab was very good. Do you think its really worth changing my entire enchant and gem set up

Which trinket should i use? I also picked up Mark of Norgannon, dont know why but everyone said it was a really good tank trinket?

SHould i change anything about my spec?

ANd yes i will be changing my glyphs and improving my rotation to the 969

Thank you all for your help
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Chasey » Mon May 04, 2009 7:56 pm

Holy, glad you are here! You are in need of help and this really is the place to find it. Honestly the sticky's labeled 3.1 or WOTLK are worth looking at first and foremost. Yes some is out of date but guess what there is still great info and will get you on track.
I spent about 2 or 3 days just reading before posting or starting a thread. Yes all the question you asked are there in the sticky's and the basic thread has a great outline on pull info.
To have the gear you do and have gotten as far as you have is impressive so being here can and will make you a better tank.
Good luck.
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Artos » Mon May 04, 2009 8:11 pm

Holynite-bloodhoof wrote:I have been tanking everything since lich king came out, ive tanked every fight except sarth 3d, and ive tanked 6 of the bosses in ulduar, but my problem is i cant grab agro fast enough, it takes me longer than other tanks to grab it it seams. after a full rotation about 10 seconds i dont lose it, but in those first few seconds im struggling....

what am i doing wrong? heres my armory..maybe its my rotation or something

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=Holynite


Well, without reading your rotation, it's hard to say.

When I go in for a boss, I usually open up with Avenger's Shield, judge the moment they come into range, then spam Shield of the Righteous. That gives me a good 50K threat (or so) off the pull, and it takes a heavy string of crits from the mages to pull off of me.

For the AoE stuff I have to work a little harder. Mark a skull and make sure people kill it first; I pull with Exorcism, AS another mob, then tab to one that didn't get hit to open with Hammer as they close into melee range. Switch back to the skull, judge + shield slam, then lay down consecration. If people open up a little too early with the AoE I might loose a mob (or if they attack the wrong target), but that's what RD is for. :)
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Re: What am i doing wrong?

Postby Jazmine » Mon May 04, 2009 11:26 pm

I find that we are far superior at single target threat. We however lose aggro to warriors and DKs on aoe snap aggro because their aoe aggro abilities generate a ton more threat on the initial hit. However over time we are able to keep a continuous flow of threat so it makes us technically more stable to tank aoe mobs with.

Also it depends on ur guild. The instant you pull a mob does not mean dps should immediately start going at it. Smart dps will give tanks a sec or 2 before going all out.
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