Threat and DPS relationship.

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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Kelaan » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:30 am

thegreatheed wrote:
Majiben wrote:
Eanin wrote:DPS also have a baked in 30% damage reduction, so it's comparing 70% to 190%, not 100% to 190%.
Not all of them.

Righteous Fury, Frost presence, Defensive stance, and Dire bear form all have a hidden 43% threat modifier to ALL damage. This is the compensation for removal of Blessing of Salvation.

All have an inherent threat reduction when not in a tanking form/stance/aura/presence. However, not all have additional talents which reduce threat even further.

Ret, blood, and fury specs (and probably arms?) have talents that explicitly reduce threat generated. Rogues have (or had?) an inherent threat reduction (I may be wrong, they might not still have it). I believe mages can talent for it as well. I don't think hunters can spec for reduced threat, though. (They have a threat WIPE, which is normally Awesome, but is specifically broken on Malygos and Razorscale.) I notice the threat difference immediately between an 0/x/x DPS DK and one that has points in their threat reduction talent. I frequently have my hunter and DK close to my threat, especially on a fight where there isn't a lot of target switching.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Eanin » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:32 pm

My point was that a 43% increase in threat on our part is functionally equivalent to a 30% aggro reduction in everyone else.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby æ » Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:35 pm

Holy dmg = 2.7x in threat
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby cordelia » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:58 am

So a big issue on these boards at the beginning of Wotlk was DPS... and how if our TPS = 2.7*DPS, and warriorTPS = 1.43*Def Stance*DPS, then in order for tankadin DPS and prot warrior DPS to be equivalent as well as TPS for both to be equivalent, then Def Stance would also have to be a 1.9x Modifier, which most ppl didn't think was the case.

Anyone know what the current status of all this is?
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby majiben » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:22 am

Well what a lot of us were also saying that auto attacks would have to be a huge portion of our threat so that our dps and threat would be to the other tanking classes. Right now threat or dps while tanking isn't balanced and isn't a big concern right now. Basically it hasn't become a problem yet it seems, most likely because it came out in our "favor" with us doing plenty of dps compared to a warrior or DK and having superior threat (druids seem to be a bit high on dps and have similar threat). Now for how long until the imbalance becomes important enough because of geared dps and tight enrage timers? We're not sure yet but the underlying issue is still there.

Paladin threat looks like this BTW:

1.43*1.9*holy dps + 1.43*white dps

The rest:
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby trellian » Mon May 04, 2009 3:43 am

thegreatheed wrote:1. giving the 30% "baked in" threat reduction to dps classes. this is not the case. you must have a tank in a "tank stance" to have the baked in effect. a dk tanking in blood, or a prot paladin without righteous fury on, and there is no baked in effect. thus attributing the effect to dps classes isn't correct, because the effect isn't present without a tank stance.
2. arguing that the above 30% baked in threat doesn't apply to all classes. which is also false. it applies to anything that is dpsing in the presence of a tank in a tank stance. not because the dps class gets a modifier, but again, because the tank gets the modifier. yes, some classes get additional reduction, but if this was the intent of your post maj, i was mistaken, and i think your comment was poorly worded.

Both your points are incorrect.
A dps class will do exactly the same amount of threat wether a tank is present or not. No class has gotten a baked in salv. Not a single one. The only thing they did, was add an equevalent effect to the tanks' stances (Frost/Bear/Defensive/RF) which multiplies said tanks' threat by 1.43.

Besides this, they removed the 'this spell generates increased threat' from virtually every spell or attack in the game bar a few and give them a 1:1 relationship in damage done and threat generated.

There simply is no baked in salv. Dps threat didn't get nerfed but tank threat got boosted.
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