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Threat and DPS relationship.

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Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Kalakaua » Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:57 am

I've haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it, but I sometimes wonder why my dps isn't matching up to my threat. From what I understand, Righteous Fury boosts threat from holy damage by 90% and there's a percentage of my threat that's attributed to just white damage(non-holy). So why is it that my threat is often close to 3x my actual dps on single targets? My omen will show me 5-6k TPS the entire time, but the recount only shows me doing barely 2k dps.

I'm assuming that certain moves do extra threat, but I can't figure out which ones.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Aubade » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:40 pm

I do believe Shield of the Righteous does like 4X threat, Hammer does a little bit extra, as well as holy shield, i'm not positive on Consecration. Judgement and white attacks are only normal (threat = DPS) outside of the righteous fury rule.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Sabindeus » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:56 pm

this question can best be answered here.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Dorvan » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:08 pm

Aubade wrote:I do believe Shield of the Righteous does like 4X threat, Hammer does a little bit extra, as well as holy shield, i'm not positive on Consecration. Judgement and white attacks are only normal (threat = DPS) outside of the righteous fury rule.


False. ShoR and HotR do not have any bonus threat. The tooltips used to indicate that they did, but they were indicate. I'm pretty sure Holy Shield's bonus threat was removed when WotLK came out...that's what that talent and ability tooltips for HS indicate.

At any rate....gauging your overall threat by watching instantaneous threat reads from Omen isn't very reliable....give the combat log to a threat parser for a better idea of where your threat is coming from.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Eanin » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:18 pm

DPS also have a baked in 30% damage reduction, so it's comparing 70% to 190%, not 100% to 190%.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby majiben » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:00 pm

Eanin wrote:DPS also have a baked in 30% damage reduction, so it's comparing 70% to 190%, not 100% to 190%.
Not all of them.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Aubade » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:02 pm

Dorvan wrote:
Aubade wrote:I do believe Shield of the Righteous does like 4X threat, Hammer does a little bit extra, as well as holy shield, i'm not positive on Consecration. Judgement and white attacks are only normal (threat = DPS) outside of the righteous fury rule.


False. ShoR and HotR do not have any bonus threat. The tooltips used to indicate that they did, but they were indicate. I'm pretty sure Holy Shield's bonus threat was removed when WotLK came out...that's what that talent and ability tooltips for HS indicate.

At any rate....gauging your overall threat by watching instantaneous threat reads from Omen isn't very reliable....give the combat log to a threat parser for a better idea of where your threat is coming from.



Ah, good information to know.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby thegreatheed » Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:31 pm

Majiben wrote:
Eanin wrote:DPS also have a baked in 30% damage reduction, so it's comparing 70% to 190%, not 100% to 190%.
Not all of them.


Wrong and wrong.


Righteous Fury, Frost presence, Defensive stance, and Dire bear form all have a hidden 43% threat modifier to ALL damage. This is the compensation for removal of Blessing of Salvation.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Rasmfrackn » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:06 pm

thegreatheed wrote:Righteous Fury, Frost presence, Defensive stance, and Dire bear form all have a hidden 43% threat modifier to ALL damage. This is the compensation for removal of Blessing of Salvation.


Yeah, your holy damage has a 2.7x multiplier not a 1.9x multiplier, and your white damage has a 1.43x multiplier on threat. If you're just eyeballing omen, 3x sounds about right.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby theothersteve7 » Mon Apr 27, 2009 5:02 pm

I think he just meant that most melee DPS have talented 30% threat reduction, which is entirely true.

To answer the OP, just look at the tooltip for Righteous Fury. I'm sure you have some idea what it does already.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Eanin » Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:02 pm

thegreatheed wrote:
Majiben wrote:
Eanin wrote:DPS also have a baked in 30% damage reduction, so it's comparing 70% to 190%, not 100% to 190%.
Not all of them.


Wrong and wrong.


Righteous Fury, Frost presence, Defensive stance, and Dire bear form all have a hidden 43% threat modifier to ALL damage. This is the compensation for removal of Blessing of Salvation.


That's the same thing. 10/7=1.43.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby Candiru » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:47 am

Its the same thing for DPS pulling agro, but its not the same thing for the numbers the Blizzard threat API shows.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby majiben » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:12 am

thegreatheed wrote:
Majiben wrote:
Eanin wrote:DPS also have a baked in 30% damage reduction, so it's comparing 70% to 190%, not 100% to 190%.
Not all of them.
Wrong and wrong.


Righteous Fury, Frost presence, Defensive stance, and Dire bear form all have a hidden 43% threat modifier to ALL damage. This is the compensation for removal of Blessing of Salvation.

While there is a hidden threat modifier to all tanking stances that doesn't change the fact that only some dps specs have threat modifiers of their own.

Ret paladins for instance have http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=31881. This is not the same as the hidden 43% boost to tank threat. They stack.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby thegreatheed » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:07 am

Eanin wrote:That's the same thing. 10/7=1.43.



yet the conversation i was quoting was..

1. giving the 30% "baked in" threat reduction to dps classes. this is not the case. you must have a tank in a "tank stance" to have the baked in effect. a dk tanking in blood, or a prot paladin without righteous fury on, and there is no baked in effect. thus attributing the effect to dps classes isn't correct, because the effect isn't present without a tank stance.


2. arguing that the above 30% baked in threat doesn't apply to all classes. which is also false. it applies to anything that is dpsing in the presence of a tank in a tank stance. not because the dps class gets a modifier, but again, because the tank gets the modifier. yes, some classes get additional reduction, but if this was the intent of your post maj, i was mistaken, and i think your comment was poorly worded.
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Re: Threat and DPS relationship.

Postby majiben » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:43 am

Majiben wrote:
Eanin wrote:DPS also have a baked in 30% damage reduction, so it's comparing 70% to 190%, not 100% to 190%.
Not all of them.
Nothing about this is poorly worded. I responded to the literal interpretation of his post. Not all dps have a baked in threat modifier.
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