Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Lave » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:05 am

just did a duel vs. a protwarrior - both just autoattacking each other
bladewarding procced 1x.. in 2duels (like 6 minutes). disappointing

whats the point of a stacking buff, when the proccrate is to low for
stacks to happen? ^^
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby majiben » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:47 am

Your sample size is a bit small to be meainingful.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby MrDuck » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:18 am

Lave wrote:just did a duel vs. a protwarrior - both just autoattacking each other
bladewarding procced 1x.. in 2duels (like 6 minutes). disappointing

whats the point of a stacking buff, when the proccrate is to low for
stacks to happen? ^^

Prot vs Prot, hitting each other..i'd guess you didnt actually hit him often, did ya?


About the arguement you guys here had, well, if we scaled it up, lets say i'd have 100% avoidance as base (not really possible i know, forget DR for now), the choice would be to have a proc every now and then, which would make sure i avoid the following 1-x hits (depending on rate miss:dodge:parry), or i'd have the agility enchant, giving me some 0,35% on top of my 100%. I'll proc the buff, well then i'm certain i'll have some use of it, and when i actually parry, it'll be gone but i'll see it actually helped.(<--- it actually doesnt make much sense to me now that i wrote it down -.-)

Back in reality, with ~21% parry, something like 13% of parries i perform under the buff can be accounted to the enchant. It doesn't make for many hits over the course of a fight. Neither does 0,35% dodge from agi however, and meanwhile, as much as bursty avoidance it is, as it procs, it gives actually higher chances to be consumed. When you look at the statistical chance of getting 2 parries in a row, time between attacks and such, it gets less likely to get any use of that proc after it was consumed, so i'd actually say its real value is slightly more than averaging avoidance/uptime.

From the report, it shows i parried 7 times under the effect of the buff: http://mrduck.no-ip.info/sws/sws-xt002- ... tml#damage
It procced 12 times, so 5 procs either went waste, or stacked up (uptime is 1:17m, so it's very likely it stacked up a few times). Now,my overall i parried 9 attacks, 7 were under effect of the buff, so we could assume at least one hit was very likely avoided thanks to the proc. The boss attacked about 48 times in total, from seeing the debuff uptime(over various reports), parry chance after the debuff and amount of boss' attacks, it comes up to me with average of 0,24hit avoided on that fight(48*0,2*0,025 [attacks*uptime*parry%) *), with agility enchant, as static avoidance of roughly 0,35%, shows average 0,168hits avoided over that time period.

Correct me if there's something wrong in my maths, but it's not matter of sample size, since the uptime of 0,2 is average from many parses not only from me, but other reports also, and parry chance it just static value.

PS: *) actually, i believe it should be 48*0,2*0,025*4, since the boss should attack roughly 4 times during the duration of this buff,making it more likely to use it. But then,thinking further into the thing, there's still only about 13-15% average(rough estimation) chance of the parry being actually caused by the buff, right?
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Tinae » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:29 am

If anyone is really interested in going through the data I have had blade ward on my last laugh since the second day of 3.1 and have all our 25 man attempts and most the 10 mans here.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/browse/guild/24996
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Jazmine » Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:39 am

So quick summary, should we enchant Blade Ward over Accuracy?
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Legionp » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:03 pm

Jazmine wrote:So quick summary, should we enchant Blade Ward over Accuracy?


They do different things... Accuracy is purely threat, whereas blade warding gives some avoidance. I wouldn't wear BW if you're looking for threat, the damage on proc is minimal tps.

If you are asking which is "best." It's too hard to say at this time, but it's also a matter of preference. Personally I have zero issues with threat in ulduar 10/25 so far (only done up to mimiron before this weeks reset) so accuracy is worthless to me, but Ignis whoops my ass (pre-nerf anyway).


Edit: I should say I was never a fan of accuracy to begin with; I wouldn't enchant or gem my armor with hit/crit over avoidance, why would I treat my weapon differently?
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby majiben » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:06 pm

Accuracy is useful because of it's high ilvl. It has almost twice the budget of it's competition. Get enough of an okay stat and it's better than a little of an ideal stat.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Lave » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:59 am

Majiben wrote:Your sample size is a bit small to be meainingful.


i dont care about the exact chance to procc, aka doing the math and using
meaningfull testsizes when one thing is clear after hitting a warrior for 6
minutes that turned his back on me

this enchant is bad due its terribad chance to procc & its likely, that it wont
have any effect in your average bossfight (1-2 proccs avg. that wont ness.
lead to a parry)
tbh. "Enchant Weapon - Blood Draining" looks more attractive to me than this
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Varmin » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:19 am

Lave wrote:i dont care about the exact chance to procc, aka doing the math and using

When procs only occur a few times a minute, your test could have very easily been a very distant outlier.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Lave » Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:24 am

Varmin wrote:
Lave wrote:i dont care about the exact chance to procc, aka doing the math and using

When procs only occur a few times a minute, your test could have very easily been a very distant outlier.


ok.. for a bigger sample size http://wowwebstats.com/fgyd4e4e1vrvs?a=x4800000006aeed0

Blade Warding - 9'45m uptime / 81 proccs / 24,209 damage done
Lave - 82m dps time / 11,535,207 damage out / 1,481 swings
>
4920/81 = 1ppm (not ness. ppm system, but i got 1 procc every 60s avg.)
4920/585 = 12% uptime
81/1481 = 5,4% chance to proc
24209/11535207 = 0.2% of total damage done
24209/4920 = 4.9 dps

i parried 23 times in 4920 seconds when bladewarding was up
since i have 20% parry and bw increases it for like 3-4 percent

-> 4 parrys and 5 dps due to my weapon enchant this evening :>
i is not impressed ;<
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby xlos » Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:34 am

Maybe intersting to know if ppl are having Reckoning in their specs, I did not and on for istance xt-002 heroic, full fight it procced only twice. Weird to see other ppl having such higher numbers
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby toothdecaykills » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:42 am

Lave wrote:ok.. for a bigger sample size http://wowwebstats.com/fgyd4e4e1vrvs?a=x4800000006aeed0

Blade Warding - 9'45m uptime / 81 proccs / 24,209 damage done
Lave - 82m dps time / 11,535,207 damage out / 1,481 swings
>
4920/81 = 1ppm (not ness. ppm system, but i got 1 procc every 60s avg.)
4920/585 = 12% uptime
81/1481 = 5,4% chance to proc
24209/11535207 = 0.2% of total damage done
24209/4920 = 4.9 dps

i parried 23 times in 4920 seconds when bladewarding was up
since i have 20% parry and bw increases it for like 3-4 percent

-> 4 parrys and 5 dps due to my weapon enchant this evening :>
i is not impressed ;<


Nowhere does this data suggest, represent, or even mention the potential times where Blade Ward caused a Dodge instead of consuming the Blade Ward charge. Since that is likely to occur, and so should at least be considered, I feel your data and experience is skewed.

Though one thing is for certain...this enchant most likely is not desirable for threat in any way.
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Loras » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:03 am

Important - it is PPM based, or % based?
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Lave » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:24 am

toothdecaykills wrote:Nowhere does this data suggest, represent, or even mention the potential times where Blade Ward caused a Dodge instead of consuming the Blade Ward charge. Since that is likely to occur, and so should at least be considered, I feel your data and experience is skewed.

hows my data skewed? i just provided information about uptime, addtional parrys and average dps
you might see additional benefits in this enchant and enlighten us with your findings. this however
doesnt change any of the things i stated, does it?

you could also state "you didnt mention it has a sexy glow and thus saying it procced 1 time per 60 seconds is wrong"
see what i did there? =)
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Re: Enchant Weapon: Blade Ward - testing results

Postby Candiru » Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:22 am

toothdecaykills wrote:Nowhere does this data suggest, represent, or even mention the potential times where Blade Ward caused a Dodge instead of consuming the Blade Ward charge. Since that is likely to occur, and so should at least be considered, I feel your data and experience is skewed.

Though one thing is for certain...this enchant most likely is not desirable for threat in any way.


Thats because blade warding cannot cause a dodge? It only boost parry chance.
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