So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby Funtodin » Thu May 07, 2009 1:16 pm

Agility only affects melee critical chance, the same way intellect does with spell critical chance.

Now, since we're hybrid casters/melee, where do we benefit from agility (or melee) crit?

Only Hammer of the Righteous and white damage? I'm assuming since all the other ones can be silenced, they should be spells and are probably affected by intel rather than agility. Correct me here if I'm wrong please.
Has anybody done any kind of test on this or compared WWS reports against chance to crit for both spell and melee?
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby majiben » Thu May 07, 2009 3:08 pm

You're wrong. The only "spells" that are spells and can crit that we do are Holy shield charges and exorcism and you won't be casting exorcism except on a pull. The rest work off of melee or ranged crit.

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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby Fridmarr » Thu May 07, 2009 3:15 pm

You sure Holy Shield can crit? None of my last 800 holy shield charges were considered a crit by WWS and WorldofLogs.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby majiben » Thu May 07, 2009 3:24 pm

Pretty sure theck said they can, Haven't bothered to look for myself.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby Dorvan » Thu May 07, 2009 3:45 pm

Holy Shield can't crit, unless something has changed very recently.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby majiben » Thu May 07, 2009 3:56 pm

You know I might be messing up hit and crit. Holy shield uses spell miss but can't crit.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby Eanin » Thu May 07, 2009 11:08 pm

If you consider armor and dodge equivalent in terms of item budget, then agility > dodge, assuming you have Kings.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby kurros » Fri May 08, 2009 7:54 am

Majiben wrote: you won't be casting exorcism except on a pull.


Since when?
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby toothdecaykills » Fri May 08, 2009 10:37 am

kurros wrote:
Majiben wrote: you won't be casting exorcism except on a pull.


Since when?


Exo provides such a small threat boost when subbed in for Judgment that it is hardly worth the risk of Judgments of the Just downtime. Given Exo's fantastic range, you'd have to be mildly insane not to keep it ready for pulls and random pickups.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby gibborim » Sat May 09, 2009 5:49 am

Candiru wrote:For some reason tankpoints is telling me that 16agi is worth far far more than 16dodge rating for pure avoidance. I don't know what's wrong with it. Does anyone else get tankpoints telling them the same thing (in the +16 of X gives X avoidance section.) Looks like a bug...



Tankpoints is broken in some areas and isn't updated for 3.1. Install ratings buster, then copy the lib directory from your RatingsBuster addon into your tankpoints addon and click replace all.

In specific on agility, the base agil/1% dodge is way off and I could not find where it was wrong in the .lua files like other problems I had to correct myself.

Also, patching it with the ratings buster files will add in 3.1 talent changes.
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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby cougbait » Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:17 pm

this is from my post at my guild's website where i am the class rep for paladin:

RED GEMS:
a lot of teir items and meta sockets require the use of red gems, and as most should know by now that almost every gem should have stam on it lets just look at the purple gems that have avoidance and stam.

there are 3 which fall into that category Defender's Twilight Opal, Regal Twilight Opal, Shifting Twilight Opal.

DTO= 8 parry/ 12 stam
RTO= 8 dodge/ 12 stam
STO= 8 agility/ 12 stam

these numbers are from math done with info from elitestjerks.com
DTO = +0.163% increase in chance to parry
RTO= +0.203% increase to dodge
STO=+0.154% dodge, 16 armor, 0.154% crit
STO with kings= +0.167% to dodge, 17.6 armor, and 0.167 crit

both RTO and STO (kings) give more avoidance than the DTO so lets just talk about those two. The RTO is just a flat amount of dodge which is always nice but it is effected by DR (diminishing returns) which means as you get more dodge it will take more dodge rating to get the same amount of %dodge. but since both gems should be effected by DR near the same point lets "forget" about that effect for this post.

the RTO gives you 0.036% more dodge than the STO (kings), but you also gain the 17.6 armor and some extra crit too, in my opinion the STO is the gem to go with as you will most likely be using KINGS in ulduar till you out gear it and if your in naxx you shouldnt care that much about the lost in STO with out kings.

I went out and got all three purple gems and equip one at a time to see the difference between the 3 gems and i took the numbers down for all three. things to note during this i only changed out one gem all other items stayed the same. since in progression content you should have kings before sanctuary i will give the results with kings only. This test i had on mostly iLvL 226 gear mixed with some 213 gear, def at 543.

STO (kings): armor= 25184, dodge= 23.75%, parry= 20.53%
RTO (kings): armor= 25166, dodge= 23.78%, parry= 20.53%
DTO (kings): armor= 25166, dodge= 23.62%, parry= 20.64%

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Re: So now that theres stam/agl purple gems again....

Postby theckhd » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:44 am

Majiben wrote:Pretty sure theck said they can, Haven't bothered to look for myself.

As far as I know, it can't crit.
Majiben wrote:You know I might be messing up hit and crit. Holy shield uses spell miss but can't crit.

I agree, this is probably what you were thinking of.

cougbait wrote:this is from my post at my guild's website where i am the class rep for paladin:
STO (kings): armor= 25184, dodge= 23.75%, parry= 20.53%
RTO (kings): armor= 25166, dodge= 23.78%, parry= 20.53%
DTO (kings): armor= 25166, dodge= 23.62%, parry= 20.64%

Those look like they're in pretty good agreement with the expected values given here. A difference of about 18 armor and 0.03% dodge.
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