800 armor vs 2% threat

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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Seloei » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:13 am

more like 2% threat is equal to 1 point in crusade, since it increases all damage done by 1%, but RF increase threat done by 90% so 1.9%.
the 10 parry rating is almost equal to the 20 agility avoidance and the 40 armor isn't going to even reduce the hit by 10 dmg
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Jasari » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:14 am

Meloree wrote:2% threat is equivalent to 2 points of crusade for threat in Ulduar. If Crusade is worth it for TPS, so is the enchant.

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+1% damage is strictly better than +1% threat.

A raid will always benefit from you doing more damage, it will only benefit from you doing more threat if the DPS are threat capped.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Kelaan » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:44 am

Meloree wrote:2% threat is equivalent to 2 points of crusade for threat in Ulduar. If Crusade is worth it for TPS, so is the enchant.


I take Crusade both for damage and threat. If I could choose an alternative talent that would give me 800 armor, rather than crusade, I'd likely take it, though -- staying alive >>> silly amounts of threat more than my DPS on most fights. (There are, of course, fights where you ARE fighting for threat... and thus would wear the threat gloves and want threat talents.)

I am really happy to hear that the +800 armor tinker will be improved in 3.2. It makes it even more compelling, IMO.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Vedge » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:59 am

Seloei wrote:the 10 parry rating is almost equal to the 20 agility avoidance and the 40 armor isn't going to even reduce the hit by 10 dmg


I switched it for a reason, dont you think? It's about twice as effective from the point of avoidance + abit of armor. In my gear and with my stats ofc. 2% threat is absolutely worthless for me baing able to stay far ahead of the dps.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby defeated » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:23 pm

I don't know why any tank would honestly want to be an engineer except for the fun things, if you wanted to stat by stat min/max your stats, i would say JC/BS is it, 2 extra sockets on any item, create your own belt buckles, also the JC gems, even after nerf, are going to be powerful and nice.

Also for those that are ever in the need for playing another role, as dps or heals, its just very powerful combo, atleast for us paladins, i would have to agree that its THE best combo for us as far as stats go, in every spec.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Bundy » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:41 pm

Ive never been the guy with 50,000 gold chillin in the bank, so I will never just change professions just because one currently gives a few more stats than another. That being said, my prot warrior is Mining/BS and thats that. My hunter is an engineer which is fine for the most part but I would for sure like that 800 armor on my gloves over any other enchant. But im sure BS will get some more recipees or whatever there called for BS, and Engineering will get some good shit too at some point. They cant just leave it as mostly useless forever, I just dont think thats how Blizz roles. So im just gonna wait it out and see what happens.

I think 800 armor beats 2% threat in at least 95% of fights. If your getting hit for 25k, 800 armor is gonna reduce that by at least 2% per hit I think. And that would add up too a hell of alot less damage taken over the course of the fight.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby gibborim » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:59 pm

2% if you are MTing Hodir hardmode or something, otherwise 800 armor. Any threat issuses that don't fall into a couple of corner cases like Hodir are solvable by the tank or DPS playing better.

Bundy wrote:
However, what if I'm a smith/engineer??

Extra socket + 800 armor + enchant = overpowered...maybe


Not quite buddy, the 800 armor counts as a enchant so its one or the other. You could still get 800 armor or the enchant plus the added socket though.


Yes Ted, that is the joke.

Bundy wrote:They cant just leave it as mostly useless forever, I just dont think thats how Blizz roles.


They can and will. They would rather engineering be the 'fun', bad profession than ever be a stricly better choice than any of the professions with normalized stat bonuses. They pretty much looked back at all the professions bs in TBC and said "Sorry guys, we promise that shit won't happen again!"
Last edited by gibborim on Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Bundy » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:45 am

My bad, I didnt know you were in charge of Blizz and made all the decisions..... cough.

They eventualy fix things, maybe later than sooner, but it gets fixed. Name one thing that has been broken and untouched since the original launch.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Khayne » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:52 am

Seloei wrote:more like 2% threat is equal to 1 point in crusade, since it increases all damage done by 1%, but RF increase threat done by 90% so 1.9%.
the 10 parry rating is almost equal to the 20 agility avoidance and the 40 armor isn't going to even reduce the hit by 10 dmg


Quiz time:
Pete produces 1000 dps. He has these nifty abilities that increase his TPS by direct multiplier from DPS, let's say by around 2,5 since there's actually 2 different multipliers for different parts of that 1000dps. Pete thus produces 2 500 tps.

Pete the Paladin now chooses to improve his dps by 1% and thus improves his dps to 1010, and his tps multipliers stay the same and thus his TPS is at 2525.

How much did he increase his TPS by by increaseing his dps by 1%?

(sorry about long and sarcastic question, just very annoyed by seeing that same statement all the time in different forums).

Also, like someone said: The "if you take crusade, you should take armsman" isn't that clear cut.
If i don't take crusade, i can take....Reckoning? Divinity? Benediction?
If i don't take armsman, i can take 18 stam or 20 agility.
Opportunity costs are very different here.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby gibborim » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:03 pm

Bundy wrote:My bad, I didnt know you were in charge of Blizz and made all the decisions..... cough.


I advise avoiding sarcasm when you have been shown to be the idiot in the situation.

Bundy wrote:They eventualy fix things, maybe later than sooner, but it gets fixed. Name one thing that has been broken and untouched since the original launch.


You don't seem to understand. Engineering sucking is the 'fix'.

Assumption 1: They want engineering to be different and fun.
Assumption 2: Balancing engineering bonuses vs the standard ones is very difficult.
Assumption 3: They do not want people to feel compelled to change professions for progression.
Assumption 4: They have limited developement time and resources.

Following these assumptions, it seems like a very reasonable approach for blizzard to make engineering measurably worse than other professions. On occasion, throw them a new toy that does nothing in combat.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Jazmine » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:43 pm

Vedge wrote:
Meloree wrote:P.S i switched 2% treat with 20 agin on gloves. Cant see any difference.


^
I totally agree and that is exactly what I did.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Bundy » Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:40 pm

Bundy wrote:
My bad, I didnt know you were in charge of Blizz and made all the decisions..... cough.


I advise avoiding sarcasm when you have been shown to be the idiot in the situation.



So a difference in opinion that happens to be different than yours automaticaly makes me an idiot?

If you can explain in detail how you know for a fact that Blizz is NEVER going to make engineering a decent profession choice, well theres not much to say really becuase thats impossible to say. Even Blizz couldnt say that because peoples minds change all the time.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Ascendant » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:21 pm

actually 800 armor seems to be pretty on par with the BS and mining bonuses I have.

800/14 = 57.14...
57-20 = 37
37*1.5 = 55.714 (used original floating point value)

so the 800 armor is worth almost 56 stamina cost-wise. BS is 48 stam and mining is 50. If you have a problem with armor, then boo you i guess :?
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:28 pm

Yes, armor is essentially equivalent to the stam other professions give. The problem everyone seems to have with it is that it doesn't help with magic damage.
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Re: 800 armor vs 2% threat

Postby MrDuck » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:48 pm

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Yes, armor is essentially equivalent to the stam other professions give. The problem everyone seems to have with it is that it doesn't help with magic damage.

Well, considering there aren't really many magical tank-killers in Ulduar (can't think of anything but mimiron's plasma blast, which is healable on normal mode anyway, and needs cooldowns to mitigate on hardmode, so it's not like you can gear to survive it), I would say that armor is pretty good.

That said, I'm one of those who really don't get the point of stacking stamina, so I usually just gear to reach the health that is pretty much minimum for an instance, and go on mitigation/avoidance on all the rest i can.
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