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Glyph of Divine Plea

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby BluTrigger » Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:08 pm

Right now I'm thinking that the new exorcism glyph might be a higher damage increase than the judgment glyph. (need to test this still)
With the SoV and HotR glyphs though I can't justify myself doing three damage/threat oriented Major glyphs.

This glyph still bugs me though. If they wanted to give Tankadins more damage reduction, then they could've put it a ton of other places (in tree). I understand they are trying to get prot to use DP a lot more, but if you think of when you need to make sure you have DP up (for mana reasons) it is usually situations where the 3% reduc isn't going to make or break you. Obviously it doesn't hurt to keep it up, but I think they should've put the 3% somewhere else. It just sucks that now I feel I _have_ to have this glyph to keep on top, and Blizz is tuning encounters assuming paladins will have this glyph (sounds like when they were toying around with the stam to weap enchant).

What new glyph does intrigue me is the Salv glyph. I'm sure their original intent with it was to be a PvP oriented glyph, but I see it as a mini shield wall on a 2min CD. BUT for fights where this would be useful, I'd have to be using the DP glyph for sure and would have to drop either the HotR or SoV glyph to put it in. I like the duality of this new glyph and its utility (and threat is really only an issue on a small number of encounters in which case I'd be using SoV/Exo/HotR for full damage and threat), but I find myself less and less inclined to spend 150g on it bc of the DP glyph...


TL;DR: DP glyph is unfortunately a necessary evil for the most part... Salv glyph looks cool.. Once these glyphs are a dime a dozen I'm going to carry around a stack of each and switch them accordingly (or maybe I''ll have to change my dual spec to 2 prot just for the glyphs...).
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby toothdecaykills » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:06 pm

BluTrigger wrote:Right now I'm thinking that the new exorcism glyph might be a higher damage increase than the judgment glyph. (need to test this still)
With the SoV and HotR glyphs though I can't justify myself doing three damage/threat oriented Major glyphs.

This glyph still bugs me though. If they wanted to give Tankadins more damage reduction, then they could've put it a ton of other places (in tree). I understand they are trying to get prot to use DP a lot more, but if you think of when you need to make sure you have DP up (for mana reasons) it is usually situations where the 3% reduc isn't going to make or break you. Obviously it doesn't hurt to keep it up, but I think they should've put the 3% somewhere else. It just sucks that now I feel I _have_ to have this glyph to keep on top, and Blizz is tuning encounters assuming paladins will have this glyph (sounds like when they were toying around with the stam to weap enchant).

What new glyph does intrigue me is the Salv glyph. I'm sure their original intent with it was to be a PvP oriented glyph, but I see it as a mini shield wall on a 2min CD. BUT for fights where this would be useful, I'd have to be using the DP glyph for sure and would have to drop either the HotR or SoV glyph to put it in. I like the duality of this new glyph and its utility (and threat is really only an issue on a small number of encounters in which case I'd be using SoV/Exo/HotR for full damage and threat), but I find myself less and less inclined to spend 150g on it bc of the DP glyph...


TL;DR: DP glyph is unfortunately a necessary evil for the most part... Salv glyph looks cool.. Once these glyphs are a dime a dozen I'm going to carry around a stack of each and switch them accordingly (or maybe I''ll have to change my dual spec to 2 prot just for the glyphs...).


I suppose with this you could also offer "If Blizzard wanted to give Warriors more damage reduction, they could have done it in the tree instead of attaching it to Glyph of Blocking." These arguments mean well, but I think they almost always go nowhere. You can even argue that the glyphs are fundamentally different or one is weaker or stronger, but it wouldn't change the fact that this Glyph provides us with a very tangible and mandatory addition. How mandatory is for you to decide.

Nowhere has Blizzard stated that they are balancing Paladins around their glyph choices. I don't know where you got this information, and I don't think you can even find data to backup that assumption. Its simply too hard to say this with so many factors and unknowns. To do that, you'd have to balance the Paladin on what you might conclude would be the communities common choices, vs. any possible dark horses. In this case, it'd be easier and more effective to either ignore them all, or consider them ALL, regardless of whether its likely you have it.

Keep in mind also that the HotR glyph increases the effectiveness of the multi target component to that ability. If I were you, I'd spend some more time in Ulduar before you decide this is something you really NEED. After all, from my experiences, there are precious few fights where I need or want my hammer hitting more targets. I agree with you and the Salv glyph though...it is very intriguing. I think it is just powerful enough that the downsides are actually worth considering. This may be a really neat tool..though to be honest I can't tell you whether I'm going to use it.

I also do not believe DP Glyph is a necessary evil. It is actually a fantastic tool, I see no downside and little to no reason why I wouldn't ever use this glyph. You may feel mandatory glyphs are bad, but I feel the complete opposite. In fact, I'd think it would introduce a way more compelling system if every glyph was as strong as the DP glyph.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby Fridmarr » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:57 pm

toothdecaykills wrote:
BluTrigger wrote:Right now I'm thinking that the new exorcism glyph might be a higher damage increase than the judgment glyph. (need to test this still)
With the SoV and HotR glyphs though I can't justify myself doing three damage/threat oriented Major glyphs.

This glyph still bugs me though. If they wanted to give Tankadins more damage reduction, then they could've put it a ton of other places (in tree). I understand they are trying to get prot to use DP a lot more, but if you think of when you need to make sure you have DP up (for mana reasons) it is usually situations where the 3% reduc isn't going to make or break you. Obviously it doesn't hurt to keep it up, but I think they should've put the 3% somewhere else. It just sucks that now I feel I _have_ to have this glyph to keep on top, and Blizz is tuning encounters assuming paladins will have this glyph (sounds like when they were toying around with the stam to weap enchant).

What new glyph does intrigue me is the Salv glyph. I'm sure their original intent with it was to be a PvP oriented glyph, but I see it as a mini shield wall on a 2min CD. BUT for fights where this would be useful, I'd have to be using the DP glyph for sure and would have to drop either the HotR or SoV glyph to put it in. I like the duality of this new glyph and its utility (and threat is really only an issue on a small number of encounters in which case I'd be using SoV/Exo/HotR for full damage and threat), but I find myself less and less inclined to spend 150g on it bc of the DP glyph...


TL;DR: DP glyph is unfortunately a necessary evil for the most part... Salv glyph looks cool.. Once these glyphs are a dime a dozen I'm going to carry around a stack of each and switch them accordingly (or maybe I''ll have to change my dual spec to 2 prot just for the glyphs...).


I suppose with this you could also offer "If Blizzard wanted to give Warriors more damage reduction, they could have done it in the tree instead of attaching it to Glyph of Blocking." These arguments mean well, but I think they almost always go nowhere. You can even argue that the glyphs are fundamentally different or one is weaker or stronger, but it wouldn't change the fact that this Glyph provides us with a very tangible and mandatory addition. How mandatory is for you to decide.

Nowhere has Blizzard stated that they are balancing Paladins around their glyph choices. I don't know where you got this information, and I don't think you can even find data to backup that assumption. Its simply too hard to say this with so many factors and unknowns. To do that, you'd have to balance the Paladin on what you might conclude would be the communities common choices, vs. any possible dark horses. In this case, it'd be easier and more effective to either ignore them all, or consider them ALL, regardless of whether its likely you have it.

Keep in mind also that the HotR glyph increases the effectiveness of the multi target component to that ability. If I were you, I'd spend some more time in Ulduar before you decide this is something you really NEED. After all, from my experiences, there are precious few fights where I need or want my hammer hitting more targets. I agree with you and the Salv glyph though...it is very intriguing. I think it is just powerful enough that the downsides are actually worth considering. This may be a really neat tool..though to be honest I can't tell you whether I'm going to use it.

I also do not believe DP Glyph is a necessary evil. It is actually a fantastic tool, I see no downside and little to no reason why I wouldn't ever use this glyph. You may feel mandatory glyphs are bad, but I feel the complete opposite. In fact, I'd think it would introduce a way more compelling system if every glyph was as strong as the DP glyph.
Balance around glyph choices...well no they haven't said that. They do definitely balance around the sum of our parts. If you are familiar with the Beta thread where GC announced they were going to add a 3% damage reduction to Shield of the Templar, then you know it's not something they take lightly. The glyph goes too far towards balancing for my taste.

As for the Salvation glyph, I'm a bit surprised there's even much hesitation for it. It's a pretty powerful glyph.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby Cylan » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:12 am

Worldie wrote:100g it costed me, but but it's totally worth it. Too bad i keep forgetting to actually put up DP.

I have the same problem, which often makes me end up low on mana. With DS/DG, I also forget to put up SS in 10mans. So many things to remember now!

Why can't it be the old days where all we had was judgement, consecrate, holy shield, and auto attack? :lol:
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby toothdecaykills » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:21 am

Fridmarr wrote:Balance around glyph choices...well no they haven't said that. They do definitely balance around the sum of our parts. If you are familiar with the Beta thread where GC announced they were going to add a 3% damage reduction to Shield of the Templar, then you know it's not something they take lightly. The glyph goes too far towards balancing for my taste.

As for the Salvation glyph, I'm a bit surprised there's even much hesitation for it. It's a pretty powerful glyph.


I agree, it is pretty powerful, but several believe that it isn't worth the threat cost. I'll need more time using it to determine that, personally. After all, you can even macro a /cancelaura line to it in order to limit the amount of damage it causes to your threat while also using it precisely where you need it.

Not to mention, certain fights with adds or trash would find it useful as well, particularly if your targets aren't the ones being killed first. I can think of several other areas of Ulduar with extreme specificity, but I won't go into detail here.

To be honest, we already have two absolutely required glyphs. Seal of Vengeance is extremely overbudget, and given Theck's latest numbers showing the effect of a two role system, the stat is really close to block value and AP for threat, making it nearly our third best threat stat. With so much of the stat on it, it'd definitely not be very smart to consider it anything but 'mandatory'. You could go without it (some have), just as you can go without the DP glyph. Will it make you a worse tank? Most certainly. Is it enough to notice? Perhaps not.

The difference I see here however is that 3% damage mitigation is ALWAYS good...but extra expertise may find itself less useful. After all, if you're scrambling to gear up in Ulduar, you're likely to pick up tanking pieces that are pretty much dripping with expertise. In this case, should you reach the soft cap even before the glyph, you'll find it hasn't much use. However, remember that your gear is the sum of its parts, and what you wear today doesn't have to be what you wear later. In the end, you could most certainly min/max your set by replacing several of those Expertise pieces and stacking other stats seeing as how you have a net of +10 skill available through a glyph. Just some thoughts on that subject.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby Paxi » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:05 am

Worldie wrote:100g it costed me, but but it's totally worth it. Too bad i keep forgetting to actually put up DP.

Get PowerAura and set it to display in combat when DP isn't active works like a charm :D

Paid 80 gold for the pair of mine. Cheap deal imo :D
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby Serelynn » Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:59 am

1000 gold on my server. /facepalm
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby mandm413 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:47 pm

Serelynn wrote:1000 gold on my server. /facepalm


300g on my server, I figure I can wait a week for it to drop a little or for our guild scribe to learn it.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby Muffswindler » Tue Apr 21, 2009 12:49 pm

Glyph of DP - 130g.. Using Glyphs of....
1. DP
2. SoV
3. RD - Considering changing it out because of the little to no need for it in Ulduar..... Glyph of Judgement or exorcism? I say judge.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:32 pm

This glyph showed up on the AH about two days ago on my realm at 200g (same as most new glyphs). Within less than a day, some of the more noticable bank alts were posting it and starting to undercut each other. Today, I bought it for 35g.
I hate the AH on this server sometimes. Not today.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby toothdecaykills » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:04 am

Muffswindler wrote:Glyph of DP - 130g.. Using Glyphs of....
1. DP
2. SoV
3. RD - Considering changing it out because of the little to no need for it in Ulduar..... Glyph of Judgement or exorcism? I say judge.


I agree, Judgment is probably your go choice, unless you want to test out the Salv glyph. Used it in Ulduar last night to some pretty decent results.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby Worldie » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:13 am

Paxi wrote:
Worldie wrote:100g it costed me, but but it's totally worth it. Too bad i keep forgetting to actually put up DP.

Get PowerAura and set it to display in combat when DP isn't active works like a charm :D

I got already enough warnings on PowerAuras, my screen is crowded :? I'm just looking if there is Divine Plea in my ClassTimers bars.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby honorshammer » Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:26 am

toothdecaykills wrote:
Muffswindler wrote:Glyph of DP - 130g.. Using Glyphs of....
1. DP
2. SoV
3. RD - Considering changing it out because of the little to no need for it in Ulduar..... Glyph of Judgement or exorcism? I say judge.


I agree, Judgment is probably your go choice, unless you want to test out the Salv glyph. Used it in Ulduar last night to some pretty decent results.


SoV is probably the one you're most likely to grow out of. As you get more Expertise on your gear, you wont' need it as much. In my gear, I get exactly half my 20 Expertise from the Glyph, so I'll be keeping it for now.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby toothdecaykills » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:06 am

Honorshammer wrote:
toothdecaykills wrote:
Muffswindler wrote:Glyph of DP - 130g.. Using Glyphs of....
1. DP
2. SoV
3. RD - Considering changing it out because of the little to no need for it in Ulduar..... Glyph of Judgement or exorcism? I say judge.


I agree, Judgment is probably your go choice, unless you want to test out the Salv glyph. Used it in Ulduar last night to some pretty decent results.


SoV is probably the one you're most likely to grow out of. As you get more Expertise on your gear, you wont' need it as much. In my gear, I get exactly half my 20 Expertise from the Glyph, so I'll be keeping it for now.


This is likely, but for me, as I get further into Ulduar, I'll be replacing the early drops loaded with high expertise with the hard mode pieces that have way better stay distributions in favor of avoidance. With this glyph I can min/max my gear to pretty awesome results.
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Re: Glyph of Divine Plea

Postby MotiVater » Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:29 pm

Worldie wrote:
Paxi wrote:
Worldie wrote:100g it costed me, but but it's totally worth it. Too bad i keep forgetting to actually put up DP.

Get PowerAura and set it to display in combat when DP isn't active works like a charm :D

I got already enough warnings on PowerAuras, my screen is crowded :? I'm just looking if there is Divine Plea in my ClassTimers bars.

It's not there by default but child's play to add it.
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