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Sacred Duty confuses me...

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Sacred Duty confuses me...

Postby qwyn » Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:52 am

Sacred Duty:
Increases your total Stamina by 6%, reduces the cooldown of your Divine Shield spell by 60 sec and reduces the attack speed penalty by 100%


The 6% stam is obvious, but i dont know what blizz is trying to say about divine shield by improving it this deep into the prot tree. The only thing I can think of is a little bonus to solo aoe-grinding. is there any advantage to us to have DS on a shorter cooldown/full swing speed when other people on the line?

i know there have been a few threads about how blizz can 'fix' SD, but i was wondering if anyone has had any success in using divine shield while tanking in its current state. some have suggested using DS to body pull, but this dosnt seem more effective than the standard wing&fling. as a last ditch, would anyone suggest popping your shield to gain that extra couple seconds for the heal (canceling bubble after youre safe again) - even though it will mean the mob will run around 1-shotting 2-3 people before you get him back? (assuming the mob is taunt immune, since i have yet to meet a tauntable mob that made me fear for my life)
if im holy specced its because i havent had time to clean the blood of my enemies off my arena gear yet
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Postby Jarkeld » Sun Sep 09, 2007 8:01 am

My best bet would be Al'ar, but our trouble is getting him off other tanks, not having other tanks get it off us, and we're better at picking up the adds anyways. It used to be a filler talent that no one took pre-xpac, there for no apparent reason, then they added in the 6% hp there without bothering to change anything else.
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Postby Fridmarr » Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:02 am

Yeah, the part that effects DS is a bit odd. I've used DS a few times when tanking, like when our fearward priest died early on nightbane, but I don't think I've ever tried to use it when it was still on CD for 1 minute or less, and I don't keep it up long enough to take advantage of the attack speed.

It could be useful in PVP, though deep prot isn't much of a PVP build.
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Postby enbee » Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:39 am

I use my ds/cancel ds macro all the time while tanking, to remove stuff that would kill me/wipe us.. like.. stun on vashj when im tanking her + naga's, toy debuff on kael, abom kb's when I'm tanking it together with 69 other mobs etc..

it has its uses!
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Postby Fridmarr » Sun Sep 09, 2007 12:36 pm

enbee wrote:I use my ds/cancel ds macro all the time while tanking, to remove stuff that would kill me/wipe us.. like.. stun on vashj when im tanking her + naga's, toy debuff on kael, abom kb's when I'm tanking it together with 69 other mobs etc..

it has its uses!


I don't think anyone is arguing the effect of DS, it's the effect Sacred Duty has on DS that has questionable worth for tanking. I highly doubt if sacred duty did not have the health beneft that many tanks would bother with the talent.
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Postby Sharlos » Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:25 am

Fridmarr wrote:
enbee wrote:I use my ds/cancel ds macro all the time while tanking, to remove stuff that would kill me/wipe us.. like.. stun on vashj when im tanking her + naga's, toy debuff on kael, abom kb's when I'm tanking it together with 69 other mobs etc..

it has its uses!


I don't think anyone is arguing the effect of DS, it's the effect Sacred Duty has on DS that has questionable worth for tanking. I highly doubt if sacred duty did not have the health beneft that many tanks would bother with the talent.


You know..the prot tree isn't and wasn't all about tanking.

Just because Warrior's prot tree is totally screwed in pvp doesn't mean we have to follow suit.
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Postby Mithos » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 am

PvP basically. Especially arenas. The amount of time 2 min insignia (<33333) and 4 min bubble has saved my ass is phenomenal, especially with the attack speed reduction penalty gone. Bubble, run to avoid mass dispel, keep swinging at people alnog the way and go do whatever you bubbled for, unless you used it to remove a debuff (etc etc).
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:33 am

Darkshadow201068 wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:
enbee wrote:I use my ds/cancel ds macro all the time while tanking, to remove stuff that would kill me/wipe us.. like.. stun on vashj when im tanking her + naga's, toy debuff on kael, abom kb's when I'm tanking it together with 69 other mobs etc..

it has its uses!


I don't think anyone is arguing the effect of DS, it's the effect Sacred Duty has on DS that has questionable worth for tanking. I highly doubt if sacred duty did not have the health beneft that many tanks would bother with the talent.


You know..the prot tree isn't and wasn't all about tanking.

Just because Warrior's prot tree is totally screwed in pvp doesn't mean we have to follow suit.


...Who said it was? I mean I know we all tank with improved concentration aura running, amirite?

Note: Tom Chilton is NOT allowed to answer that!
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Postby Agravaine » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:10 am

You have to keep in mind the evolution of Sacred Duty through Beta.

Originally, I think it was quite clearly set up to be a PvP talent only. I mean, a faster DS is nice and all, but hardly a PvE requirement. They didn't really see how regular PvP was going to be abandoned largely for Arena, where a 1 minute cooldown reduction was going to be simply pointless.

Eventually, I think they just saw it as a place they could throw some stamina and keep it conveniently out of reach of Holies and Rets.
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Postby eia » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:30 am

Fridmarr wrote:...Who said it was? I mean I know we all tank with improved concentration aura running, amirite?

Note: Tom Chilton is NOT allowed to answer that!


... guess you would be surprised at how often I find it useful then... although, I can't say that I've got time enough to measure if it actually helps vs all things I use it for, but it feels better, and that's all that counts. ;)
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:29 am

I feel there's a fundamental bit of understanding about how the talent trees are designed.

You'll note we have three ability groups: Holy, Protection, Retribution. It would be really easy to just say, Holy=heal, Prot=tank, Ret = dps. This is misguided. Holy = holy, Prot = prot, ret = ret. Divine Shield is classified as a Protection ability because it protects you. The talent to improve it is thus in the Protection tree. The talent trees provide specialization to some exttent, but they also are supposed to improve all aspects of the class. Maybe not equally, but it would be foolish to force a paladin who specs prot to never Heal or DPS.
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Postby Agravaine » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:22 am

I'm struggling to see anything in the Protection Tree that helps my healing.
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:59 am

Agravaine wrote:I'm struggling to see anything in the Protection Tree that helps my healing.


Being able to Divine Shield more often

Being able to BoP people more often

Getting decreased Silence/Interrupt time from Imp Conc Aura

Being able to stun attackers more often

Maybe you need to think outside the box a bit
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Postby Myotis » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:31 am

Agravaine wrote:I'm struggling to see anything in the Protection Tree that helps my healing.


I'm struggling to see anything that helps my tanking.
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Postby Whitewolf » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:52 am

Myotis wrote:
I'm struggling to see anything that helps my tanking.


Holy shield
Sacred Duty
Righteous Fury
Redoubt
Imp Shield

And about 85 percent of the talents there.

I would LOVE to see you try to tank without holy shield though. :) Would be amusing, and expensive.
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