Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis  WotLK/3.x
Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Candiru wrote:theckhd, are you assigning the Judgement and HotR the extra threat from the resulting SoV proc? It wasn't clear from your post if you were. If you aren't adding them already, then that would push HoW back to only be worth replacing HolyShield with.
No, I added it in to the SoV DPS section.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
I am usually an offtank for my guild. I was wondering if 2/51/18 with 2 in SotP, 3 in reckoning, 0 in judgement of the just, with 5 in conviction and 3 in crusade would be a viable spec if there is always a prot paladin or thunderclap being applied?
Or would 5/51/15 be a better spec for threat. This is for boss threat only with ulduar level gear.
Or would 5/51/15 be a better spec for threat. This is for boss threat only with ulduar level gear.
 Coldfuzion
 Posts: 1
 Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:41 pm
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Coldfuzion wrote:I am usually an offtank for my guild. I was wondering if 2/51/18 with 2 in SotP, 3 in reckoning, 0 in judgement of the just, with 5 in conviction and 3 in crusade would be a viable spec if there is always a prot paladin or thunderclap being applied?
Or would 5/51/15 be a better spec for threat. This is for boss threat only with ulduar level gear.
If you want boss threat, I'm assuming you're sometimes maintanking a boss. I would never drop JotJ if you had to tank a boss by yourself at any point in time (IC comes to mind)

Gamingdevil  Posts: 1738
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 Location: Belgium
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Coldfuzion wrote:I am usually an offtank for my guild. I was wondering if 2/51/18 with 2 in SotP, 3 in reckoning, 0 in judgement of the just, with 5 in conviction and 3 in crusade would be a viable spec if there is always a prot paladin or thunderclap being applied?
Or would 5/51/15 be a better spec for threat. This is for boss threat only with ulduar level gear.
Just follow the rule of thumb:
Theck wrote:
 For DUH mobs, Crusade > SotP > Conviction > Reckoning
 For nonDUH mobs, SotP > Crusade > Conviction > Reckoning.
So if you're in CC, and you're ignoring Vindication, PoJ, DS/DG, you'd normally be speccing 53/18 with 5 in Conviction and 3 in Crusade. If you want to drop JotJ, you'll get the best bang for your buck by moving those two points to SotP, ending up with the 2/51/18 spec you suggested.
If you're in Ulduar, you'll see slightly better performance from the 5/51/15 spec
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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3.2 Glyph Analysis
3.2 Glyph Analysis
To calculate the TPS of a glyph, we run the simulation with and without the glyph, and subtract to find the difference it made in overall TPS. Nothing fancy here.
Setup
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV
Glyphs: V, J, or A alone, as compared to unglyphed
Talents: 1V+3C build, on a "noDUH" mob type
Gear: Theck's 8.5 Progression Set, given above
File: calc_glyphs.m
Not a whole lot has changed here. SoV is still the best 'alwayson' glyph, while AS is still the best singletarget threat glyph if you're weaving AS into your rotation. The one noticeable change compared to previous patches is that SoV has gained so much ground that it's better than Judgement even if you're softcapped on expertise. That makes choosing glyphs a lot easier.
TLDR version:
To calculate the TPS of a glyph, we run the simulation with and without the glyph, and subtract to find the difference it made in overall TPS. Nothing fancy here.
Setup
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV
Glyphs: V, J, or A alone, as compared to unglyphed
Talents: 1V+3C build, on a "noDUH" mob type
Gear: Theck's 8.5 Progression Set, given above
File: calc_glyphs.m
 Code: Select all
Glyph TPS
J 69
V 163 (82 if softcapped)
A 194
Not a whole lot has changed here. SoV is still the best 'alwayson' glyph, while AS is still the best singletarget threat glyph if you're weaving AS into your rotation. The one noticeable change compared to previous patches is that SoV has gained so much ground that it's better than Judgement even if you're softcapped on expertise. That makes choosing glyphs a lot easier.
TLDR version:
 If you like the AS glyph, and know how to use it, go nuts.
 Otherwise, use SoV.
 If you're expertise hardcapped, use Judgement. Preferably better Judgement than you exhibited when you geared for the expertise hardcap. *ba bum bum*
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Why are you comparing 71.4 armor penetration to 10 strength? That cannot be a correct evaluation of equivalent item points, and is surely greatly inflating the value of armor penetration in the "per stat value" graphs.
 Amaranthea
 Posts: 178
 Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:10 pm
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Amaranthea wrote:Why are you comparing 71.4 armor penetration to 10 strength? That cannot be a correct evaluation of equivalent item points, and is surely greatly inflating the value of armor penetration in the "per stat value" graphs.
According to wowwiki, Armor Pen has a stat mod of 0.14 while Str has a 1.0, so in fact 71.4 armor is equivalent to 10 strength.

Jasari  Posts: 2195
 Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
 Location: Boston, MA
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Amaranthea wrote:Why are you comparing 71.4 armor penetration to 10 strength? That cannot be a correct evaluation of equivalent item points, and is surely greatly inflating the value of armor penetration in the "per stat value" graphs.
Unless wowwiki is incorrect, Armor Penetration's statmod is 0.14. Thus, for 10 item points, you can have 10 STR or 10/0.14=71.4 armor penetration rating.
Upon looking closer, I'm not sure whether it should be exactly 0.14 or 0.1429 (1/7), wowwiki gives both 0.14 and 1/7. Similarly, a thread on EJ seems to use 0.15 as the value. Regardless, all of these come out to around 70 ArPen rating.
<edit>Jasari beat me to it.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Armor pen showing up as a better dps stat than hit for us when the only thing affected by armor pen is autoattack doesn't raise any red flags?
Armor penetration rating has a stat value of 1.0  the same as strength or hit rating, as a quick look at the PVP necks can confirm. The wowwiki page and the EJ thread both appear to be out of date.
Edit: Also red gems. 16 str or 16 armor pen or 16 expertise. Same value.
Armor penetration rating has a stat value of 1.0  the same as strength or hit rating, as a quick look at the PVP necks can confirm. The wowwiki page and the EJ thread both appear to be out of date.
Edit: Also red gems. 16 str or 16 armor pen or 16 expertise. Same value.
Last edited by Amaranthea on Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
 Amaranthea
 Posts: 178
 Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:10 pm
3.2 Enchant/Food Analysis
Enchants/Foods:
This is similar to the stat analysis, in that I calculate how much TPS each point of a given stat gives you, and then just do some simple multiplication. Most of this is just cut/pasted from the PTR version, with updated numbers and plots.
Setup:
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV
Glyphs: V
Talents: 1V+3C
Gear: Theck's 8.5 progression set, conveniently below hit cap and expertise softcap.
File: calc_enchants.m
Not a lot has changed here. Interestingly, the SoV 5stack proc seems to have pushed Superior Potency ahead of the old BC Potency enchant in effectiveness. Accuracy and the Titanium Weapon Chain are still the best threat options.
Nothing surprising here either, Dragonfin Fillet is still the best food, with Snapper Extreme and Fish Feast nearly tied for 2nd place. Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak will drop to half of the shown value once you pass the dodge soft cap. Fish Feast is still a pretty solid threat food for players whose guilds provide it.
TLDR Summary:
This is similar to the stat analysis, in that I calculate how much TPS each point of a given stat gives you, and then just do some simple multiplication. Most of this is just cut/pasted from the PTR version, with updated numbers and plots.
Setup:
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV
Glyphs: V
Talents: 1V+3C
Gear: Theck's 8.5 progression set, conveniently below hit cap and expertise softcap.
File: calc_enchants.m
 Code: Select all
Enchant DPS TPS
Berserking 53 133
Accuracy 35 88
Ti Weap Chain 27 69
SuPotency 25 62
Potency 24 60
GrPotency 19 48
Mongoose 18 41
26 Agi 11 27
Not a lot has changed here. Interestingly, the SoV 5stack proc seems to have pushed Superior Potency ahead of the old BC Potency enchant in effectiveness. Accuracy and the Titanium Weapon Chain are still the best threat options.
 Code: Select all
Food DPS TPS
Dragonfin Fillet 50 127
Snapper Extreme 41 105
Fish Fillet 40 103
Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak 37 87
Blackened Dragonfin 19 47
Nothing surprising here either, Dragonfin Fillet is still the best food, with Snapper Extreme and Fish Feast nearly tied for 2nd place. Rhinolicious Wyrmsteak will drop to half of the shown value once you pass the dodge soft cap. Fish Feast is still a pretty solid threat food for players whose guilds provide it.
TLDR Summary:
 Accuracy and Titanium Weapon Chain are still the best threat enchants
 Dragonfin Fillet is still the best threat food
 The sky is still blue
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
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 Location: Harrisburg, PA
3.2 Seal Comparison
This one barely even counts because it's so short, but it took me 15 minutes to make the graph pretty, so I'm going to post it anyway.
3.2 Seal Comparison
Simple calculation of TPS using all three different seals to see which is highest.
Setup:
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV, SoC, SoR
Glyphs: V (for SoV), J (for SoC), R (for SoR)
Talents: Various
Gear: Theck's 8.5 progression set
File: advanced_comparisons.m
I'm not going to bother with a "pretty print" table for this one, since the details are somewhat irrelevant. Here's the graph:
SoV is consistently ahead in threat by 1.3k or more TPS, depending on spec. SoR is in second place, with SoCom coming in last place. Now that SoCom and SoV both scale with weapon damage, there shouldn't be a situation where SoCom ever overtakes SoV (like we saw occurring with SoB in previous patches). I suppose it's possible that SoC might catch up to Righteousness with a slower tanking weapon, but I suspect that nobody cares.
In case anyone was uncertain whether it was worth speccing SoCom for any reason, this should satisfy your curiosity.
TLDR summary:
3.2 Seal Comparison
Simple calculation of TPS using all three different seals to see which is highest.
Setup:
Rotation: 969
Seals: SoV, SoC, SoR
Glyphs: V (for SoV), J (for SoC), R (for SoR)
Talents: Various
Gear: Theck's 8.5 progression set
File: advanced_comparisons.m
I'm not going to bother with a "pretty print" table for this one, since the details are somewhat irrelevant. Here's the graph:
SoV is consistently ahead in threat by 1.3k or more TPS, depending on spec. SoR is in second place, with SoCom coming in last place. Now that SoCom and SoV both scale with weapon damage, there shouldn't be a situation where SoCom ever overtakes SoV (like we saw occurring with SoB in previous patches). I suppose it's possible that SoC might catch up to Righteousness with a slower tanking weapon, but I suspect that nobody cares.
In case anyone was uncertain whether it was worth speccing SoCom for any reason, this should satisfy your curiosity.
TLDR summary:
 Don't spec SoCom
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7984
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Hi Theck,
I'm not sure if I missed where it is, but was there a comparision of enchant/food for best mitigation since our threat pretty much rules already.
I'm not sure if I missed where it is, but was there a comparision of enchant/food for best mitigation since our threat pretty much rules already.
 raenac
 Posts: 15
 Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:57 am
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Raenac wrote:Hi Theck,
I'm not sure if I missed where it is, but was there a comparision of enchant/food for best mitigation since our threat pretty much rules already.
Agility is the only food that grants mitigation... ok and the ~33 BV from the strength food

Jasari  Posts: 2195
 Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:32 am
 Location: Boston, MA
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Raenac wrote:Hi Theck,
I'm not sure if I missed where it is, but was there a comparision of enchant/food for best mitigation since our threat pretty much rules already.
Nope, for exactly the reason Jasari pointed out. It's pretty much AGI or STR (for BV). Pick your poison, but AGI is almost certainly going to be the winner there.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of GrehnSkipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty

theckhd  Moderator
 Posts: 7984
 Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
 Location: Harrisburg, PA
Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)
Amaranthea wrote:Armor pen showing up as a better dps stat than hit for us when the only thing affected by armor pen is autoattack doesn't raise any red flags?
Armor penetration rating has a stat value of 1.0  the same as strength or hit rating, as a quick look at the PVP necks can confirm. The wowwiki page and the EJ thread both appear to be out of date.
Edit: Also red gems. 16 str or 16 armor pen or 16 expertise. Same value.
Amaranthea is correct. Armor Pen should be a 1.0 statmod. Think about it.
It takes 12.31 ArP to get 1% reduction to armor. If it was a 1/7 stat mod. Gems give 16 stat points, that would result in 112 ArP per gem. 11 Gems would give you 100% ArP(pre cap calcs). That would be literally insane, and every arms or fury war would be gemming solely for ArP, regardless of socket color, as that would be near a 50% damage increase.
 Meyrinn
 Posts: 110
 Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:03 am
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