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Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Awyndel » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:51 am

As much of a powerplayer I am, this does look like an exploit wich wasn't intented. I wish blizz would make it impossible.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Arees » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:19 am

I can't verify this myself because I'm not on the PTR. Plus the info is from the tanking forums so it may not be completely accurate, but it seems that the bonus weapon damage at 5 stacks of SoV now applies to all number of stacks, but in an increasing amount depending on the number of SoV applications.

Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&pageNo=2
Code: Select all
Stacks          Weapon damage w/o SOTP         Weapon damage w/ full SOTP

1 stack                  6.60%                           7.59%

2 stacks                13.20%                          15.18%

3 stacks                19.28%                          22.77%

4 stacks                26.40%                          30.96%

5 stacks                33.00%                          37.95%


I doubt this changes much though.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:23 am

WATERBOYsh wrote:I doubt this changes much though.

Yeah, since we're calculating sustained TPS with the 5-stack already up, it's pretty much irrelevant to these calculations. It might be important if we wanted to look at the threat generation ramp-up at the beginning of a fight, which could be interesting to look at.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:52 am

Awyndel wrote:As much of a powerplayer I am, this does look like an exploit wich wasn't intented. I wish blizz would make it impossible.


Fair enough, I submitted a bug report both in game and on their website form, asking whether it was an exploit or clever use of game mechanics. If they come back with clever use, then I'll finish the modifying the add-on.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:36 am

Holy paladins used to do this all the time in TBC, there was an addon called Librameister which did it for you.

Used your Blessing of Light libram if your target had the buff
HolyLight MP5 one if the buff wasn't up
Flash of light / Holy light boosting one if the target didn't have BoL, and you had the MP5 buff.

This was back when you could go
<Holy Light>
<Switch libram>
<Cast finishes>

so you lost nothing.

They changed weapon switching when the arena brought in haste rather than spellpower weapons (although I think they never went live) to avoid casting with the haste weapon, and finishing with the spellpower weapon. Now if you switch while casting it resets the cast.

Blizzard didn't seem to care that holy paladins were doing it though.

In the prot paladin's case, you loose swings so you are loosing threat, so I doubt they will care enough to do anything.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Dread » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:04 am

WATERBOYsh wrote:I can't verify this myself because I'm not on the PTR. Plus the info is from the tanking forums so it may not be completely accurate, but it seems that the bonus weapon damage at 5 stacks of SoV now applies to all number of stacks, but in an increasing amount depending on the number of SoV applications.

Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 1&pageNo=2
Code: Select all
Stacks          Weapon damage w/o SOTP         Weapon damage w/ full SOTP

1 stack                  6.60%                           7.59%

2 stacks                13.20%                          15.18%

3 stacks                19.28%                          22.77%

4 stacks                26.40%                          30.96%

5 stacks                33.00%                          37.95%


I doubt this changes much though.


This information is actually quite useful to Rets, though. One of the big issues with the recent change was the long ramp up time before Ret could expect to do decent damage. At least this way would cause a smoother damage ramp up rather than extremely slow until the 5 stack was built.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Dread » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:06 am

Jerey-Darkspear wrote:Fair enough, I submitted a bug report both in game and on their website form, asking whether it was an exploit or clever use of game mechanics. If they come back with clever use, then I'll finish the modifying the add-on.


I'm not 100% sure on this, but I do believe I remember a blue post about this. They acknowledged its existence. That was at least at the early days of 3.1, so if they haven't corrected it by now, I doubt they will. But please do let us know if you get a response.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:43 am

Dread wrote:I'm not 100% sure on this, but I do believe I remember a blue post about this. They acknowledged its existence. That was at least at the early days of 3.1, so if they haven't corrected it by now, I doubt they will. But please do let us know if you get a response.

If it's the same post that I'm thinking of, my (admittedly bad) memory was that they said they were aware that it worked that way, and while it wasn't intended and they didn't like it, they didn't feel it was a significant or widespread enough problem to ban or suspend people over. Presumably it's one of those things that they may fix "if they get around to it."
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Nadir » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:36 pm

In terms of swap-exploit "balance", DKs and Druids would seem to be capable of :

rune strike 200 dodge 20 sec
icy touch 53 defense rating 30 sec
scourge strike / obliterate 200 STR 20 sec (59 parry rating raid buffed)

mangle 153 agi 12 sec
lacerate/swipe 200 dodge rating 9 sec

Warriors are at a significant disadvantage, however.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Rhî » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:10 pm

This is their advantage: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45137
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Dread » Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:49 pm

theckhd wrote:If it's the same post that I'm thinking of, my (admittedly bad) memory was that they said they were aware that it worked that way, and while it wasn't intended and they didn't like it, they didn't feel it was a significant or widespread enough problem to ban or suspend people over. Presumably it's one of those things that they may fix "if they get around to it."


That sounds about right. I guess they haven't gotten "around to it" yet. :P

I'd interpret this as a go for now, but don't be surprised if it gets fixed later.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Jerey-Darkspear » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:15 am

Well, I reported it via http://us.blizzard.com/support/article. ... =hacksform which I found in the Bug Reports forum as being the preferred method to report exploits. Shortly after, I got an e-mail from Tech Support saying they don't handle in-game issues and go use a GM instead. Mind boggling since I reported it via the very link Blizzard said I was to use.

That avenue turned into a "Don't Care". Waiting in line on a "High-Volume" ticket to see what the GM says.

****EDIT****
GM said fine for now until it's fixed, as speculated. So feel free to use it. Link to convo: http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx11 ... swapok.jpg
****/EDIT****

As for using a mod to do this, I modified the one I linked in my first post. The reason it was running slower than it should is because at each event, it was checking every slot to see if your libram was equipped. I removed the for-loop and have it just checking the libram slot; the original author should have limited checking to just the weapon slots since you can't change other pieces of gear in combat. When I get to my WoW machine with the code change, I'll paste it, along with the mod, in the add-on forum. This significantly improved DPS from libram swapping add-on. I believe we can model it as .1 sec increase on GCD now.

****EDIT****
Here's the link to the thread I made in the Add-on forum for Libram Swapping Add-on and changes necessary: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25043
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Nadir » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:17 pm

Rhî wrote:This is their advantage: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=45137

I do not have any objection to the use of libram swaping. I was merely noting the benefit that each class stands to gain in a pure mitigation scenario.

Paladins: 14.48% STA modifier, 0.0192 dodge/AGI ratio, 6934 base HP
Warriors: 6% STA modifier, 0.0136 dodge/AGI ratio, 8121 base HP

In the overall context of STA modifiers, base HP, and agi to dodge modifiers, this exploit puts warriors at a disadvantage. Even without using libram swaps, Paladins have more HP and avoidance than a Warrior in exactly the same T8 era gear. However Paladins, in addition to Druids and Death Knights, have the option of doubling or tripling the utility of their ranged slot, while Warriors remain unable to gain any additive benefit from swapping.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Awyndel » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:34 pm

I wonder what the % threat lost would be. Would it mess with holy shield uptime or jotj chance.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby DisRuptive1 » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:04 pm

Theckhd, if I'm running 2/2 Vindication and 2/2 Pursuit of Justice and have 4 talent points left over after filling in the Prot. tree, where should they go to maximize threat, 1 in Conviction, 3 in Crusade or 4 in Seals of the Pure? If I'm reading your graphs right, 4 points in Seals of the Pure is better for non-DUH mobs?
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