Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Varmin » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:18 pm

Cidx wrote:I think instead of using SoV glyph I'd use SoB glyph for more Mana Regen this could also mean those wanting to go 4/5 Benediction due to the SA change could go back to 3/3 HotC with 1 still in Benediction.

If I understand correctly it's already been pointed out only time with glyph that Exorcism is worth replacing was with Holy Shield so I'd imagine the DPS/TPS still be the same only reason to substitute is to lower the amount of recoil damage from SoB judgements.

I think with this change though DPS/TPS might increase especially since we still have reckoning factoring.


SoB glyph won't be very good in it's current state as it only returns mana based on the recoil, and you would be getting very little recoil with the new SoB (I'd expect a new glyph of SoB soon).

That was Exorcism vs Judge of SoV. SoB judgement is getting nerfed hard (And the seal is getting a major buff), Exorcism about beats it even without the glyph. Swapping exorcism for judgement will also help you have even less recoil.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby steadypal » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:31 pm

theck i noticed on ur newest graphs,,,, conviction now out tps/dps's sotp?


i thought it was stated that sotp was superior?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Cidx » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:48 pm

steadypal wrote:theck i noticed on ur newest graphs,,,, conviction now out tps/dps's sotp?


i thought it was stated that sotp was superior?


He said 2/5 Conviction 3/3 Crusade out DPS/TPS 5/5 SotP point for point so he proposed a spec getting 5/5 Conviction and 3/3 Crusade over SotP.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Teunis » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:52 am

First of all realy nice post

Was looking at your 3.1 ptr post, was kinda missing the talent: Sanctity of the Battle
Was wondering about these talents would do in a 969, and the HS cd version
Maby with and without: Glyhp Exorsism (20% More dmg)

So i could make my mind up on what build would be better for pure tps.
(5 Spare Talents, 1 out SA)
3/3 SoB + 2/3 Crusade
2/3 SoB + 3/3 Crusade
(4 Spare Talents, 0 out SA)
1/3 SoB + 3/3 Crusade
3/3 SoB + 1/3 Crusade
2/3 SoB + 2/3 Crusade
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby majiben » Fri Mar 27, 2009 4:49 am

Well sanctity of battle was dismissed a while ago. It failed to improve exorcism dps enough to make subsistuting it in a tps gain, which means it can be treated as the same gain as conviction. Conviction and thus Sanctity of battle is far below crusade on a point for point basis. Since you have to choose between Crusade and Sanctity of battle, sanctity of battle will never be picked up. This of course is assuming you're picking up the core prot talents which require an investment of 53 points.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:35 am

Cidx wrote:
steadypal wrote:theck i noticed on ur newest graphs,,,, conviction now out tps/dps's sotp?
i thought it was stated that sotp was superior?

He said 2/5 Conviction 3/3 Crusade out DPS/TPS 5/5 SotP point for point so he proposed a spec getting 5/5 Conviction and 3/3 Crusade over SotP.

No, steadypal is right, I said that 5/5 Conviction is better than 5/5 SotP. It's only very slightly ahead in threat though, and I suspect the reason is that the default gear set has evolved somewhat - it's currently using mostly ilvl 213 (so 5/5 T7.25), which has more STR and BV. My guess is that Conviction scales far better than SotP with both of these two stats, and that with the current gear set it's enough to push Conviction ahead, barely.

If I'm remembering previous analyses (done by others) correctly, SotP was always slightly behind in DPS but slightly ahead in TPS. My guess is that they were calculating these values with approximate stats that matched a gear set closer to T7.10 (or ilvl 200 across the board).

The new SoB change is a pretty big one:
mmo-champion wrote:Seal of Blood now makes all your melee attacks deal [ 48% of weapon damage ] (up from 22%) additional Holy damage. Unleashing this Seal's energy instantly causes [ 11% of AP + 18% of Spell Power + 26% of min weapon damage ] to [ 11% of AP + 18% of Spell Power + 26% of max weapon damage ] (Down from 16/25/36%) Holy damage at the cost of health equal to 33% of the damage caused.

I am already re-working the analysis to see how this fits into things. I hope to have news soon.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am

Request: can anyone point me to a definitive source as to what the Seal of Righteousness Glyph will end up being in 3.1? I've heard conflicting reports about it. It' was either already buffed to 30% on the PTR and nerfed back to 10%, or it was always 10% on the PTR (i.e. the buff never made it into a build). In which case have they said definitively whether it's still going to make it to 30% or not?

The number of variables we have to play with at the moment is, quite frankly, staggering. So if there are some that I can eliminate through quick and easy tests (like SoR if the glyph is 10%), I'd like to do so.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Suba » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:23 pm

From
3.1.0 PTR Patch Notes Update - 03/27
# Glyph of Seal of Righteousness: Increases damage done by this seal by 10%. (Up from 3%)

(not sure when it was ever 3% tho)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Dorvan » Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:53 pm

Suba wrote:From
3.1.0 PTR Patch Notes Update - 03/27
# Glyph of Seal of Righteousness: Increases damage done by this seal by 10%. (Up from 3%)

(not sure when it was ever 3% tho)


Nerfs go over much better when you claim they are buffs :P

-- Ardent Defender: Reduces all damage to you by 15% (Up from 5%) when you are below 35% Health.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:53 pm

Noticed this on the latest build as well:
# Combat Expertise: This talent will now properly increase spell critical strike chance.

I'll add that into the simulation as well, if it isn't there already.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby ticklefist » Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:07 pm

I've got a request.

At what level of Expertise skill does Glyph of Judgment begin to generate more TPS than Glyph of Seal of Vengeance?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby steadypal » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:19 pm

theck, i was thinking when u test SOTP is it vs single target? cause where i see it shine is when u have a 5stack SOV up on a bunch of mobs, and SOTP with hotr glyph it'll be much more, as of right now i think sotp adds about 70 dmg to my sov 5stack tick...


but after reading this i MIGHT try out 5/5 conviction :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Conaan! » Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:44 pm

ticklefist wrote:I've got a request.

At what level of Expertise skill does Glyph of Judgment begin to generate more TPS than Glyph of Seal of Vengeance?



i believe if your soft capped without glyph then it outpaces it, if it doesnt already
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:28 pm

ticklefist wrote:I've got a request.

At what level of Expertise skill does Glyph of Judgment begin to generate more TPS than Glyph of Seal of Vengeance?

Don't have an exact number for you, but it should be very close to the expertise soft cap. You can see from the relative heights of the JV and VE bars on any of the plots in this thread that the Judgement glyph is pretty weak.

steadypal wrote:theck, i was thinking when u test SOTP is it vs single target? cause where i see it shine is when u have a 5stack SOV up on a bunch of mobs, and SOTP with hotr glyph it'll be much more, as of right now i think sotp adds about 70 dmg to my sov 5stack tick...

Well... yeah, SotP would do more in that situation... but how often do you tank multiple bosses at the same time?

All of my calculations are for single-target unless they explicitly say otherwise.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby gregorian » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:13 pm

Theck im getting mixed signals here because for one, this thread is talking about maintanking but your armory is tuned towards trashtanking, so tuned in fact that i salute it for being 100% optimised for adds duty on nightfall/twi-vanq fights which are the only reason i would bet on.

unless of course you have an MT set which armory isnt showing...

if you dont then i can only assume sotp does more for your role since its value scales with the number of targets on you, up to a maximum of how many you can keep sov on.

the vibe im getting from your sotp v. conviction thoughts is that the difference itself is marginal, in which case i for one would simply accept the short loss in an MT scenario in order to gain a large advantage in a trash scenario.

would you?
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