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Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Tintalle » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:18 pm

I've been able to get additional HotR hits to proc TaJ motes, as well as the additional HV applications and seal hits to do the same. Hitting 2 target dummies at once with no seal I was seeing up to 2 motes per HotR, and I seen up to 5 or 6 with a HotR with SoV on.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Rasmfrackn » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:01 pm

theckhd wrote:Base_STR is 151
Gear_STR is 1649
extra_STR is an array that varies from -200 to +200 to give you a range.

The unbuffed character sheet STR of the base gear set should then be:
(151+1649)*1.15 = 1800*1.15 = 2070

...
Also note that the 200 STR from LoValiance is already included in the 1649 attributed to gear.

Note that the gear set was chosen as a "25-man hard-mode progression" gear set, which is basically the gear level I'm at now (roughly full 264 gear). My character sheet is using a few different pieces than the progression set, but I'm at 1793 before the 230 from the Libram and 115 from the Last Word proc (or 94 from the Bonebreaker Scepter). That would put me at 2117 before raid buffs or kings.

Fair enough, so that really is roughly accurate for all 264s (and the str-heavy non-set pieces), assuming 200 from the LoV and ~100 from a weapon. (I'm not sure how you'd get 94 str from a Bonebreaker Scepter, even heroic, even if you gemmed with 20 str for some reason. But, that's minor. Must find way into 25-man pug for Putricide.)

I'm... noticeably behind that Str level in my 251s. Ah well.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:54 am

Rasmfrackn wrote:I'm not sure how you'd get 94 str from a Bonebreaker Scepter, even heroic, even if you gemmed with 20 str for some reason.

Divine Strength. It has 82 STR on the base (251, I think) version. 82*1.15=94 (rounded down).

You're probably closer than you think by the way. If you take your character sheet strength in Dalaran and add 230 to that (for the Libram proc), you're probably at least in the mid 1900's in 251 gear. And given that you probably have the 264 badge pieces (or at least have access to them eventually), 2k isn't a bad estimate for an average tank.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Meloree » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:41 pm

theckhd wrote:
Rasmfrackn wrote:I'm not sure how you'd get 94 str from a Bonebreaker Scepter, even heroic, even if you gemmed with 20 str for some reason.

Divine Strength. It has 82 STR on the base (251, I think) version. 82*1.15=94 (rounded down).

You're probably closer than you think by the way. If you take your character sheet strength in Dalaran and add 230 to that (for the Libram proc), you're probably at least in the mid 1900's in 251 gear. And given that you probably have the 264 badge pieces (or at least have access to them eventually), 2k isn't a bad estimate for an average tank.


42 on nonheroic. 48 on heroic (with a socket). Not that it changes things by very much.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Iselian » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:08 pm

theckhd wrote:
Rasmfrackn wrote:I'm not sure how you'd get 94 str from a Bonebreaker Scepter, even heroic, even if you gemmed with 20 str for some reason.

Divine Strength. It has 82 STR on the base (251, I think) version. 82*1.15=94 (rounded down).


251 Bonebreaker Scepter has 42 strength, 92 stamina. That said, I have 1759 strength sitting in Dalaran; 264 gear across the board, aside from my mace 'n shield (Bonebreaker, Neverending) which are 251. 2K is still not unreasonable.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:31 pm

Meloree wrote:42 on nonheroic. 48 on heroic (with a socket). Not that it changes things by very much.

Hm.. then either I was looking at a different weapon, or I'm being mildly dyslexic.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Marblehead » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:44 am

After testing TAiaJ, I was pleasantly surprised by its procs. Here's the deal.

It procs from:
1. ShoR
2. HotR (main and additional targets)
3. Judgements
4. JotJ
5. HotC
6. SoV 5-stack procs (main and additional targets from HotR)
7. HV appliances and refreshes (main and additional targets from HotR)
8. SoR

It doesn't proc from:
1. Consecration
2. HV ticks
3. Vindication
4. SoC (neither main or additional targets)
5. HS damage
6. Stuns
7. Any ranged damage, i.e. HoR, AS, Exo

It's clearly visible, that this trinket is better used with SoV rather than SoC.

And now the interesting part. The trinket's damage when fully stacked can proc by itself anything procable by damage done, including SoV, SoC, weapon enchants, trinkets (TAiaJ included), last word proc, etc.

In an ideal situation, starting with already having 7 motes, it can proc up to 12 times with a single glyphed HotR on 4 targets that have 5 stacks of HV (4 procs from HotR, 4 procs from HV refreshed and 4 procs from 5-stack SoV) doing 2 damaging attacks, which themselves can proc 2 more motes and refresh HV and proc 5-stack SoV on the main target 2 times each, procing 4 more motes, for a total of 18 procs, which procs a 3rd damaging attack and 3 more motes from itself, HV refresh and SoV, for an outstanding finish with a total of 21 procs with just one attack!!

My intuition tells me that TAiaJ surpasses DC:G in a single-target fight, but what really interests me is if TAiaJ+SoV is better than DC:G+SoC in a AoE situation. Maybe I'll do the math when I get the time if someone doesn't beat me to it till then.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby badgermonkey » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:45 pm

For farm content, I'm now running Whispering Fanged Skull and Tiny Abom instead of stam/armour trinkets. It's kinda fun. Also using Gutbuster (til I get bloodvenom blade :P ) with Berserker on lol.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:25 pm

badgermonkey wrote:For farm content, I'm now running Whispering Fanged Skull and Tiny Abom instead of stam/armour trinkets. It's kinda fun. Also using Gutbuster (til I get bloodvenom blade :P ) with Berserker on lol.

Do you happen to have any parses with TAJ equipped? Particularly something like Saurfang where you have 100% active time on the boss.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby badgermonkey » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:34 am

theckhd wrote:
badgermonkey wrote:For farm content, I'm now running Whispering Fanged Skull and Tiny Abom instead of stam/armour trinkets. It's kinda fun. Also using Gutbuster (til I get bloodvenom blade :P ) with Berserker on lol.

Do you happen to have any parses with TAJ equipped? Particularly something like Saurfang where you have 100% active time on the boss.



Not right now, next chance is thursday. I'll try and remember to log it for you when I do.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:47 am

Marblehead wrote:After testing TAiaJ, I was pleasantly surprised by its procs. Here's the deal.

It procs from:
1. ShoR
2. HotR (main and additional targets)
3. Judgements
4. JotJ
5. HotC
6. SoV 5-stack procs (main and additional targets from HotR)
7. HV appliances and refreshes (main and additional targets from HotR)
8. SoR


Ok, leaving out second-order interactions (i.e. trinket 8-stack effect procs SoV which procs a mote), here's what we should see on a single target in a 9-second rotation segment:
3 proc chances from HotR/ShoR
3 from every Judgement (Judge/JotJ/HotC)
4 from SoV 5-stack procs (HotR/ShoR/JotJ)
3 from HV applications

along with 3 for every melee swing (melee/HV/SoV). Now of course all of those abilities have different chances of success. If p1 is (1-miss) and p2 is (1-miss-dodge-parry), this is the appropriate proc rate:

0.5*(4*p1 + 6*p2 + 3*p2^2)/9 + 0.5*p2*(2+p2)/swing_timer

The first term is from Judgements - looking at some logs, it seems JotJ and HotC never miss, so if the Judgement lands you get 4 chances to proc (Judge, JotJ, HotC, SoV proc from JotJ). That happens with chance p1.

The second term is HotR/ShoR and their associated SoV procs (which also don't miss). That happens with chance p2.

The third term is the HV applications from HotR/ShoR, which only occur if both the ability and the HV application succeed, which gives them a probability of p2^2.

The final term covers melee swings. On each melee swing you have a p2 chance of connecting (giving you 2 proc chances) and a p2^2 chance that you connect and successfully apply HV.

Let's say you're exp soft-capped but have 0% hit, so p1=(1-0.08)=0.92 and p2=(1-0.075-0.08)=0.845. Let's also assume your hasted swing timer is 1.3 seconds. That gives a net result of just over 1.5 procs per second. It's essentially linear with hit and expertise, but only goes up to around 1.71 at 0% miss (and 7.5% parry), and 1.88 if you eliminate parries.

So the proc mechanic gives you a 50% weapon-damage attack and a SoV proc every 4.26 to 4.67 seconds depending on hit and expertise (assuming you're not going above soft-cap). Using the numbers in the damage breakdown that should be an attack of around 475 physical damage plus a 590 holy damage SoV proc, for a net of 1065 damage or 2152 threat.

With 0% miss/dodge/parry this is 1065/4.26=250 DPS or about 505 TPS; for the more conservative 0% hit 7.5% parry set-up it's 228 DPS and a little over 460 TPS.

And that's just the proc, you also get 85 hit rating, which is 110 DPS (270 TPS) below cap.

So at least on paper, the trinket looks to be somewhere between 340-360 DPS and 730-775 TPS.

I'm curious to see how this compares to empirical data once we have some parses to browse.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby badgermonkey » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:10 am

I'll make sure to keep myself below or at the cap with it equipped actually, since you know the value of hit, it'd be easier than if I'm overcapped (my armoury's showing what I run heroics in, where my hit is still overcapped :P)

I'll parse Saurfang and Festergut too. If I'm MTing Rotface, I'll grab that one as well. That should cover stuff quite well, since I have to drop 969 on Saurfang quite often for Blood Beasts, taunts etc.

Is there any preference to my gear/stats that I can tailor for this? Having never given a useful log for anyone ever, I don't know if you'll have any preferences :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:16 am

badgermonkey wrote:I'll make sure to keep myself below or at the cap with it equipped actually, since you know the value of hit, it'd be easier than if I'm overcapped (my armoury's showing what I run heroics in, where my hit is still overcapped :P)

I'll parse Saurfang and Festergut too. If I'm MTing Rotface, I'll grab that one as well. That should cover stuff quite well, since I have to drop 969 on Saurfang quite often for Blood Beasts, taunts etc.

Is there any preference to my gear/stats that I can tailor for this? Having never given a useful log for anyone ever, I don't know if you'll have any preferences :P


Nope, doesn't really matter. I just want to observe the average proc rate, so all I'd need to know is your buffed miss and parry chances, as well as your hasted swing speed (which I can get from the parse).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby steadypal » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:44 pm

2 heroic saurfang 25 attempts


279 hit rating, with tiny abom and 26 expertise

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/tjrdco5mtebg9401/
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Nadir » Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:28 am

Meaningless nitpick, but it's actually the Judgement of Light/Wisdom/Justice debuff rather than HotC which provides an additional Mote of Anger proc on Judgement.
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