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Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:48 am

Awyndel wrote:Regarding the weapon tps, could a slow dps weapon be better then 264 last word for aoe with socom? Sorry to ask but I didn't see any slow dps weapons in the aoe graph.

Yes. They weren't included on the plot, but it works out much the same as the single-target damage calculations.

Awyndel wrote:Any thoughts on how strong the +healing buff on last word is? Does it compare to 300 spellpower? How much is it compared to divinity? Is it viable because we don't give up talent points but only some avoidance and a tiny bit of stamina?

I don't have any first-hand experience with it. There's several threads about this weapon already though.

Awyndel wrote:I was also looking at the mongoose calculations. Its quite impressive. I am beginning to wonder if blood draining is really worth it considering it doesnt proc a lot and not always gets full stacks. It is nice that it heals after an ad proc for safe recovery. I have been trying to figur out my WOL logs to see if it proced often for me but I can't make head or tails of it. Trying to figur out when it saved my life or not. Althought I realise that mongoose only adds about 80 tps. Going slightly off topic here I realise.

I've been using Crusader's Glory with Mongoose for survivability. I have another one with Blood Draining, but I don't use it very often.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Awyndel » Mon Feb 08, 2010 3:54 am

So does that mean that there aren't any weapons wich will beat last word for aoe? On any amount of targets?

I checked my WOL for blood draining. It did not seem to get used a whole lot. I am going to test mongoose for more dps/mitigation.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Anorian » Mon Feb 08, 2010 4:43 am

Awyndel wrote:So does that mean that there aren't any weapons wich will beat last word for aoe? On any amount of targets?

I checked my WOL for blood draining. It did not seem to get used a whole lot. I am going to test mongoose for more dps/mitigation.

Could be me but I think you misinterpreted Thecks post there. He said like single target slow beats fast so 2.6 dps weps will most likely outperform last word. They however lack the healing buff which seeing the recent additions to the EH theories might be better than expected.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Nadir » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:21 am

Proc mechanics got a second round of normalization nerfs in 3.2.2 (again, with zero blue comment). I don't have any conclusive parse evidence yet, but it's likely that Mongoose and other PPM mechanisms no longer procs off of applying and refreshing the Judgement debuff and JotJ. This will slightly decrease the avoidance value of those two enchants, but not by much.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:35 am

Nadir wrote:Proc mechanics got a second round of normalization nerfs in 3.2.2 (again, with zero blue comment). I don't have any conclusive parse evidence yet, but it's likely that Mongoose and other PPM mechanisms no longer procs off of applying and refreshing the Judgement debuff and JotJ. This will slightly decrease the avoidance value of those two enchants, but not by much.

Interesting, I hadn't heard about this. Got a link to where you found this? I'm curious if it affects seal procs as well, or just PPM effects.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby jere » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:49 am

I believe he is referring to the discussion from before:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... 25#p531876

Did anyone test to make sure all the stuff that was proc'ing the way it always has after that change (or was it necessary)? I don't remember offhand.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Enkal » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:05 am

I've used last word for a couple of weeks now and I'd say 90% uptime is a bit conservative. On a stationary fight it's 99-100% and if it falls off due to movement it procs on first melee swing again (I have no parse to show for it though, if I can get my hands on one I'll link it)
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:56 am

jere wrote:I believe he is referring to the discussion from before:
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... 25#p531876

Did anyone test to make sure all the stuff that was proc'ing the way it always has after that change (or was it necessary)? I don't remember offhand.

I honestly don't remember. But it should be easy to test on a dummy. Just cast Judgement from far away for a while. If you see any procs, then at least part of it (JotJ or the JoWis/JoLight debuff) is triggering them.

I don't remember if JoJustice triggers them. If it doesn't, it makes it very easy to test:
1) Try with 0/2 JotJ (maybe ret spec) and JoJustice
2) Try with 0/2 JotJ and JoWis or JoLight
3) Try with 1+/2 JotJ and JoJustice

If JoJustice doesn't trigger them, then 1) and 3) will determine if JotJ still procs it. You'd see 0 procs in test 1, and some procs in test 3.

Tests 1) and 2) would confirm that JoWis/JoLight proc them. Again, 0 procs in test 1, some procs in test 2.

If JoJustice does trigger PPM procs, then we only need tests 1) and 3). But they'd need to be run for a sufficient number of Judgements to give us a statistically significant difference between the procrates. Luckily, it should be a "double or nothing" scenario. If you get 100 procs out of 1000 tries in test 1, you'll either get around 100 or 200 procs in test 2.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:00 am

Enkal wrote:I've used last word for a couple of weeks now and I'd say 90% uptime is a bit conservative. On a stationary fight it's 99-100% and if it falls off due to movement it procs on first melee swing again (I have no parse to show for it though, if I can get my hands on one I'll link it)

If that's true, then it pushes Last Word ahead in both categories (non-heroic and heroic). I wonder if it's worth a completely new post, or if I should just update the plots and commentary in the old one.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Serv » Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:34 am

I can confirm the really high uptime. If it falls off, it takes two sings at maximum to bring the procc back up. I've set up a Power Auras String to watch the buff while fightung. (an annyoing symbol, way to large) It's there all the time.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby jere » Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:02 am

It goes inline with the blue posts back at the patch mentioning changes that would push it more towards a 100% uptime.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... pageNo=1#2
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Awyndel » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:15 pm

I have been testing it and I haven't seen it drop during combat yet. except for air phases etc.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby tlitp » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:28 pm

theckhd wrote:
Nadir wrote:Proc mechanics got a second round of normalization nerfs in 3.2.2 (again, with zero blue comment).

I honestly don't remember. But it should be easy to test on a dummy. Just cast Judgement from far away for a while. If you see any procs, then at least part of it (JotJ or the JoWis/JoLight debuff) is triggering them.

I don't remember if JoJustice triggers them. If it doesn't, it makes it very easy to test:
1) Try with 0/2 JotJ (maybe ret spec) and JoJustice
2) Try with 0/2 JotJ and JoWis or JoLight
3) Try with 1+/2 JotJ and JoJustice

If JoJustice doesn't trigger them, then 1) and 3) will determine if JotJ still procs it. You'd see 0 procs in test 1, and some procs in test 3.

Tests 1) and 2) would confirm that JoWis/JoLight proc them. Again, 0 procs in test 1, some procs in test 2.

If JoJustice does trigger PPM procs, then we only need tests 1) and 3). But they'd need to be run for a sufficient number of Judgements to give us a statistically significant difference between the procrates. Luckily, it should be a "double or nothing" scenario. If you get 100 procs out of 1000 tries in test 1, you'll either get around 100 or 200 procs in test 2.

I think there are three distinct tests to be carried out :
1. J/debuff (W/L)
2. J/JotJ/debuff
3. J/SoComm_J/JotJ/debuff

As for the methodology itself :
1.
- a slow weapon (1H, 2H) with a ppm-based enchant (goose/zerk)
- a variation of 0/33 (do not get HotC and Vindication, do get JotW)
- SoR
- hit one of the level 60 dummies only with J
2.
- slow weapon and ppm-based effect
- a variation of 42/7
- SoR
- AA+J
3.
- slow weapon and ppm-based effect
- a variation of 42/7
- SoComm
- AA+J (do not allow SoComm to cleave)

Please keep in mind that we need samples of at (very) least 250 J casts each, in order to reduce the impact of statistical fluctuations.


@ Theck : I'll look thoroughly over the PMs later on today (tomorrow, in the worst case). I may have another batch of code to submit. :P
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby theckhd » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:30 pm

tlitp wrote:@ Theck : I'll look thoroughly over the PMs later on today (tomorrow, in the worst case). I may have another batch of code to submit. :P

Sure, but I haven't uploaded any of my local copies to the repository. It won't take long, but I can't do it right now. I can have them all uploaded by this weekend though.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis

Postby Enkal » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:11 pm

theckhd wrote:
Enkal wrote:I've used last word for a couple of weeks now and I'd say 90% uptime is a bit conservative. On a stationary fight it's 99-100% and if it falls off due to movement it procs on first melee swing again (I have no parse to show for it though, if I can get my hands on one I'll link it)

If that's true, then it pushes Last Word ahead in both categories (non-heroic and heroic). I wonder if it's worth a completely new post, or if I should just update the plots and commentary in the old one.


I think the refresh rate is close to every 2 seconds, I've seen that if you attack something just after it falls off it wont refresh on the first swing. But for practical purposes it's 100% although for a full log it might show as 98-99%. Still no parse though, been slacking. :oops:
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