Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:48 am

sealava wrote:
Just wondering if you had any data for glyphed Holy Wrath?

i would like that also,seems very useful in ICC.

My impression is that HW is primarily a trash ability as well, though if you're using SoCom for trash I could see glyphing DP/HotR/HW for a trash-tanking spec. In fact, I may try that for tonight since I haven't used my ret spec in roughly forever.

Either way, I'll try and nail down some numbers for Holy Wrath just to see where it falls in the damage per cast spectrum. If it fails to do as much as Judgement, you wouldn't want to use it on bosses.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby tlitp » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:41 am

Since Theck/Jere didn't find time to test BW, I'll post the request here as well :
1. equip a block-heavy set (block-capped, 2000+ BV)
2. equip this (horde only) or this, toss a BW
3. spec 0/5 Reckoning (mandatory); the rest are all optional
4. get to the target dummy hero
5. autoattack him to death; no specials/no seals (mandatory)
6. parse the combat log (WMO/WoL)
7. specify your stats - weapon/avoidance/haste/hit/exp

This should provide a ~20 mins testing session, which will serve as a final confirmation of the analytical model of BW. Thanks.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Thels » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:05 am

tlitp wrote:Since Theck/Jere didn't find time to test BW, I'll post the request here as well :
1. equip a block-heavy set (block-capped, 2000+ BV)
2. equip this (horde only) or this, toss a BW
3. spec 0/5 Reckoning (mandatory); the rest are all optional
4. get to the target dummy hero
5. autoattack him to death; no specials/no seals (mandatory)
6. parse the combat log (WMO/WoL)
7. specify your stats - weapon/avoidance/haste/hit/exp

This should provide a ~20 mins testing session, which will serve as a final confirmation of the analytical model of BW. Thanks.


Would Vindication be a problem for that?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby lythac » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:11 am

theckhd wrote:Either way, I'll try and nail down some numbers for Holy Wrath just to see where it falls in the damage per cast spectrum. If it fails to do as much as Judgement, you wouldn't want to use it on bosses.


How many consecration ticks are needed per cast to out threat HW? Putricide doesn't look very stationary from the videos I have watched and substituting HW over consecration (after AS) could lead to a threat increase.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Thels » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:33 am

Lythac wrote:
theckhd wrote:Either way, I'll try and nail down some numbers for Holy Wrath just to see where it falls in the damage per cast spectrum. If it fails to do as much as Judgement, you wouldn't want to use it on bosses.


How many consecration ticks are needed per cast to out threat HW? Putricide doesn't look very stationary from the videos I have watched and substituting HW over consecration (after AS) could lead to a threat increase.


I spent as much time as I could DPSing the blobs, and still had zero problems with my threat on putricide. My lead was bigger than it is on average bosses. That applied even when we had no melee with us, so I could stand ready next to the blob and switch right away.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:03 am

tlitp wrote:Since Theck/Jere didn't find time to test BW, I'll post the request here as well

Yeah, sorry, I haven't had time to do much other than raid in-game lately. If nobody gets to it before this weekend, I'll try and do it Saturday or Sunday morning. Trying to solo Thrym with no buffs is sorta asking for it on a PvP server where you're significantly outnumbered.

Thels wrote:
Lythac wrote:How many consecration ticks are needed per cast to out threat HW? Putricide doesn't look very stationary from the videos I have watched and substituting HW over consecration (after AS) could lead to a threat increase.


I spent as much time as I could DPSing the blobs, and still had zero problems with my threat on putricide. My lead was bigger than it is on average bosses. That applied even when we had no melee with us, so I could stand ready next to the blob and switch right away.

I think the more relevant point is that in this case, it's more damage on the boss. Especially in phase 3, this could be a relevant concern, as every little bit helps.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby jere » Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:51 am

yeah, sorry :(

Between work, raiding, fixing my house, and getting prepped for my marriage this spring, I have been pretty swamped.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:23 am

Request for a calculation (yes, I see Theck has no time until the weekend, not urgent).

Ok, what do I want to know, well, with the ICC Radiance, we should be short of the 102,4 Block-Cap. At least I'm right now. Now my question is, how helpful will redoubt become? And then, what about good old defence? If defence gives miss + dodge + parry AND block chance, is it not a good idea to try to get some socket bonus and socket yellow sockets with +def and stam instead of gooing all out on stamina?

Without the ICC radiance we all knew for T9, go straight to stam and don't think about anything else with sockets. But does that change, does that change at all?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:08 am

On the topic of Holy Wrath:

Assuming that Holy Wrath is affected by OHWS, Crusade, Glyph of Sense Undead, Curse of Elements, and Sanctified Retribution, and uses the standard spell hit/crit/resistance mechanics, here's the code for it and the results of the Ability Damage calculation:

Code: Select all
HoWra = (1050 + 0.07.*SP + 0.07.*AP).* ...  %inherent
    (OHWS.*Crusade).* ...                   %talents
    (GoSU).* ...                    %glyphs
    (CoE.*SanctRet);                        %buffs/debuffs
Holy_Wrath = HoWra.* ...                    %base
    (100 - boss_spell_resist)./100.* ...        %hit,
    (1+(scrit_multiplier-1).*spell_crit./100).* ... % crit factor
    boss_resist_reduce;               %boss resist


Code: Select all
Ability  Raw Dmg.  Net Dmg.   Glyphed   Net Threat   Glyphed
ShoR       3608      3833         0       9866          0   
HotR       4294      4561         0      11740          0   
Cons       4755      4197         0      10803          0   
JoV        2628      3023      3326       7781       8561   
JoC        1300      1495         0       3848          0   
JoR        2516      2895         0       7452          0   
AS         2391      2750      5501       7079      14160   
HoW        3250      3739         0       9624          0   
SoV         502       590         0       1519          0   
SoC         547       582         0       1498          0   
SoR         506       480         0       1236          0   
HV         6239      5914         0      15223          0   
HS         1281      1131         0       2911          0   
Exor       3103      3071         0       7905          0   
HoWra      2164      2142      2142       5514       5514   
Melee      1346       953         0       1363          0 


Code: Select all
Ability   DPS   Glyphed    TPS   Glyphed
ShoR      639       0     1644       0 
HotR      760       0     1957       0 
Cons      466       0     1200       0 
JoV       336     370      865     951 
JoC       166       0      428       0 
JoR       322       0      828       0 
AS         76     153      197     393 
HoW       623       0     1604       0 
SoV       718       0     1847       0 
SoC       708       0     1822       0 
SoR       637       0     1640       0 
HV        197       0      507       0 
HS        407       0     1047       0 
Exor      205       0      527       0 
HoWra      71     143      184     368 
Melee     736       0     1052       0 



And here's damage/TPS with seal procs baked into each ability:
Code: Select all
Ability  Damage    Glyphed   TPS    Glyphed 
ShoR      4423        0     1897        0   
HotR      5151        0     2210        0   
Cons      4197        0     1200        0   
JoV       3613     3916     1033     1120   
AS        2750     5501      197      393   
HoW       3739        0     1604        0   
HV        5914        0      507        0   
HS        1131        0     1047        0   
HoWra     2142     2142      184      368   
Melee     1543        0     2224        0   


So it does 2142 damage per target, on average. For a single target, this places it behind everything but Holy Shield. It's about half as strong as Consecration, so if the boss is moving enough that he only takes 4 or fewer ticks of Consecration, you may as well just substitute Holy Wrath in its place as often as possible.

Holy Wrath scales linearly with the number of mobs, however. For 2 mobs, it's 4284 damage, which is now ahead of both Judgement and Holy Shield. For 3+ it out-does ShoR as well. Note that Consecration scales linearly with the number of mobs as well, so HW will never out-scale Cons for trash (unless the trash is moving out of the Consecrate, I suppose).

HotR is tricky because I'm not sure I have a good formula for how the HotR cleave damage is split up. But in an AoE situation you'd want to be using HotR anyhow, so it's probably not critical.

So in all likelihood, HW is a potential increase on Marrowgar (but only during storm), Deathwhisper (but only if you have to move her due to D&D), Rotface (but only when you move him to avoid shadow crash), Putricide (whenever you have to move him, which is a lot of the time, especially in P3).

It should also be quite good on trash, but we knew that already. I actually dropped my ret spec for a Reckoning build with DP/HotR/HW glyphs to try out in heroics and 25-man ICC trash tonight for the hell of it (not like I've used the ret spec in the last month or so anyhow).
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby tlitp » Tue Jan 26, 2010 10:55 am

Thels wrote:
tlitp wrote:Since Theck/Jere didn't find time to test BW, I'll post the request here as well :
(...)

Would Vindication be a problem for that?

Please, no JotJ/Vindication applications. This, combined with the exclusion of specials/seals/Reckoning, will grant a more steady/controlled environment. Getting a log that is polluted with any other procs makes that harder the task to track only one very specific variable. (Divine Plea and Redoubt procs are OK, heals as well; however, a paladin with 2000+ BV should be all but impervious to Thrym's attacks)

@ Theck and Jere : no problem, we're all subject to "the afk factor". After all, my own situation is worse - I don't even have an active account. :lol:
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Phonic » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:51 pm

theckhd wrote:It should also be quite good on trash, but we knew that already. I actually dropped my ret spec for a Reckoning build with DP/HotR/HW glyphs to try out in heroics and 25-man ICC trash tonight for the hell of it (not like I've used the ret spec in the last month or so anyhow).


Yeah, it's super fun. When I was AV rep farming I used this spec:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Kilrogg&cn=Phonic&gn=Clout+Mace

And I kept it since then for trash, heroics, etc :D
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Thalastor82 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:08 am

I did the same, I love it.

5/5 reckoning, 5/5 conviction, 3/3 crusade, SoComm + glyphs of HW/SoV/HotR and a aggro-blocking stuff with 3k+ block value and 3k force
I currently use this configuration for heros, I tried it on trash in ICC and it is so much fun

I had to do some very non-conventional choices to do this build: http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml ... 0000000000
It is definitely unfit for boss tanking...

I just forgot about the proccing of SoComm from JotJ; I should probably put at least one point there and go for 4/5 conviction, in order to maintain the cleaving effect on the judgement
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:28 am

Yeah, if you're going for "batshit insane aoe dps," you want 1/2 JotJ. From your spec, you could move the point from vindication or conviction over there.

It's also worth noting that you'd get more mileage out of 1/5 SotP + 4/5 Conviction than just 5/5 Conviction.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Thalastor82 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:56 am

theckhd wrote:Yeah, if you're going for "batshit insane aoe dps," you want 1/2 JotJ. From your spec, you could move the point from vindication or conviction over there.

It's also worth noting that you'd get more mileage out of 1/5 SotP + 4/5 Conviction than just 5/5 Conviction.


Doesn't vindication also proc the SoComm? If not, my choice has already been done

I didn't know that 1/5 SotP - 4/5 Conviction could be better of 5/5 conviction, simply because it affects only the judgment, since the Seal of choice for this spec is SoComm. I'll have a look again at your graphs, thanks for the hint
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:26 am

Thalastor82 wrote:Doesn't vindication also proc the SoComm? If not, my choice has already been done

I didn't know that 1/5 SotP - 4/5 Conviction could be better of 5/5 conviction, simply because it affects only the judgment, since the Seal of choice for this spec is SoComm. I'll have a look again at your graphs, thanks for the hint

No, I don't believe Vindication procs it.

And you're correct about SotP not affecting SoCom, I was thinking of SoV for some strange reason. For add tanking with SoCom stick with Conviction.
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