Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Sabindeus » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:39 am

IN THIS THREAD: Theck tells you what to do, and you do it!

thanks for the theorycraft as always dude, you are the best
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Njall » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:22 am

I hope I remember where the trainer is.... its been ages since I've respec'd.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby honorshammer » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:48 am

What are you stealing the Talent Point out of to give you SoComm?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:54 am

I currently run 2/2 Imp BoM, but I could take 1 point out and put it in Imp Judge and the other out and put that in SoComm should I choose to run it in my mainspec.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Ocin » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:19 pm

honorshammer wrote:What are you stealing the Talent Point out of to give you SoComm?


Great question.

Thanks a ton for doing this Theck. Since we're talking trash in your later posts, what weapon enchant is going to do the most DPS on these adds (ICC skele's, Deathwhisper trash, +4 heroic trash groups) given the changes? A second weapon enchanted with Mongoose or just stick with Accuracy? I guess this would depend on getting expertise soft capped?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:26 pm

Well, I believe Berserking would grant the highest dps gain, if you're willing to sacrifice 5% armor.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Ocin » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:31 pm

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:Well, I believe Berserking would grant the highest dps gain, if you're willing to sacrifice 5% armor.


I would for ICC trash so far. I picked up two 232 ilvl weapons that I've been meaning to enchant for DPS on trash, just wasn't sure given the changes which enchant would be best.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby honorshammer » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:02 pm

I don't believe in specing or glyphing for Trash. It's Trash. You spec and glyph for Bosses and progression Bosses have priority.

However, two progression Bosses right now, Airship and Lady Deathwhisper have significant parts which are fast dying adds that need solid initial aggro. It is for those fights that I'd like to include SoComm into my spec.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Ocin » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:11 pm

honorshammer wrote:I don't believe in specing or glyphing for Trash. It's Trash. You spec and glyph for Bosses and progression Bosses have priority.

However, two progression Bosses right now, Airship and Lady Deathwhisper have significant parts which are fast dying adds that need solid initial aggro. It is for those fights that I'd like to include SoComm into my spec.


I never spec for trash either (I now love ret), but I do try to create gear-sets that will make my life easier for trash or light-hitting bosses. That said, I haven't noticed any threat issues, but I won't complain if I can easily get more TPS/DPS by moving one pt. around. I'm just not sure which pt. that's going to be yet.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:27 pm

honorshammer wrote:What are you stealing the Talent Point out of to give you SoComm?

I drop Conviction to get it, since it's the lowest-TPS talent in my normal 53/18. My current spec is exactly what I've been using for heroics and ICC.

honorshammer wrote:I don't believe in specing or glyphing for Trash. It's Trash. You spec and glyph for Bosses and progression Bosses have priority.

However, two progression Bosses right now, Airship and Lady Deathwhisper have significant parts which are fast dying adds that need solid initial aggro. It is for those fights that I'd like to include SoComm into my spec.

I usually share your attitude, but SoCom has been so damn convenient for clearing the daily heroic that I'd be tempted to keep it in my spec full time. 60 TPS isn't going to make or break anything with the current content, and until we see a serious enrage timer in ICC I don't think it's worth shifting back to Conviction.

Ocin wrote:Since we're talking trash in your later posts, what weapon enchant is going to do the most DPS on these adds (ICC skele's, Deathwhisper trash, +4 heroic trash groups) given the changes? A second weapon enchanted with Mongoose or just stick with Accuracy? I guess this would depend on getting expertise soft capped?

I haven't run numbers for this, but I can make an educated guess. A long time ago, we determined that Hit and STR were our best AoE threat abilities, since our primary AoE threat tools were Consecration and Holy Shield. Seal of Command, on the other hand, improves with expertise, hit, STR, AP, and crit. So my guess is that if you're already expertise soft-capped, your best bet for aoe threat will be Hit to the cap, followed by STR and expertise.

Given that, I'd say stick with Accuracy, since it gives you both Hit and Crit. Berserking is probably even better, if you can stomach the armor loss.

I'm planning on picking up a 2.6-speed DPS weapon to slap Accuracy on for AoE tanking in my quest to break 6.5k DPS in a heroic.


Also, interesting side note - I was looking at wowwiki, and found this nugget:
wowwiki wrote:When Vindication procs on a weapon swing, the AP debuff is applied to all targets that receive Seal of Command damage.

Another point in SoC's favor for AoE tanking - no Demo Shout necessary!
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Morlin » Thu Dec 17, 2009 4:10 pm

I loved the <Massive Nerdery> warning. I'm decent with math, but I couldn't touch Theck's level with a 50 mile pole.

Well I guess that's it then. Bye-bye Conviction and hello Shield of Seal of Righteous Cleaving! However, this is really making me debate whether or not to go after 3/5 Reckoning (keeping in mind, of course, that I'm only sticking to one tank spec...I like having a DPS off-spec) and drop DS/DG. Though I'd still probably rather keep DS/DG since progression use is much more important than trash.

I'd also like to find a decent threat weapon (that's somewhat easily obtainable). Since you can only do the Quel'Delar chain once, I'd like to get a good weapon for my Ret set...I'm currently using the sword from 10-man Ony. Or, I could go for the 1H for a threat weapon. Another thing I'll have to consider.

Theck, thanks for your work on this!

EDIT: looking back to page 80 for the 3.3 weapon analysis (the link to this hasn't been updated in the original post yet, FYI), I think Black Icicle would be a good one to try for. QD is better, but I just like the 2H too much for my Ret set to waste the one-time quest chain for a threat weapon. Besides, since I'd probably never raid as Ret unless I wasn't called on to tank (which is rare), I'll probably never see a better 2H weapon.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby nastaran » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:24 pm

Theckd,
First of all much love.
Second, what are your thoughts on Seethe? (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50210)
It's a 2.2 speed caster weapon, would it be useful in aoe tanking situations where consecration is your primary threat, yet still do decent single target threat cause of the speed?

I'm thinking more in terms of heroics here, tanking trash w/ SoComm, consecration and HoR... mad deeps?
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Meloree » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:57 pm

theckhd wrote:I haven't run numbers for this, but I can make an educated guess. A long time ago, we determined that Hit and STR were our best AoE threat abilities, since our primary AoE threat tools were Consecration and Holy Shield. Seal of Command, on the other hand, improves with expertise, hit, STR, AP, and crit. So my guess is that if you're already expertise soft-capped, your best bet for aoe threat will be Hit to the cap, followed by STR and expertise.

Given that, I'd say stick with Accuracy, since it gives you both Hit and Crit. Berserking is probably even better, if you can stomach the armor loss.

I'm planning on picking up a 2.6-speed DPS weapon to slap Accuracy on for AoE tanking in my quest to break 6.5k DPS in a heroic.


I also have yet to see a whole horde of level 83 mobs. Trash is generally level 82, at most. I believe that's 5.4% expertise to hardcap, and 6% hit/spellhit? It's been a while since I've bothered looking at the caps for trash, but it's a pretty big jump down.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Awyndel » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:09 am

I also swapped conviction for socomm. For the adds on certain bosses it will be nice.

Bit off topic, doing 6K dps in heroics is great for showing off and all but i'd rather save downtime by using seal of wisdom.
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Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Shalcker » Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:12 am

Considering that at least two of ICC bosses have 1.2s slowed attack speed (Marrowgar and Deathbringer Saurfang, with Saurfang going as high as 0.9s under frenzy effect), and others are likely to follow this pattern, wouldn't that increase both Holy Shield damage/threat and Reckoning/Redoubt uptime?
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