Remove Advertisements

Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis - WotLK/3.x

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, theckhd

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:23 am

Since some of the new loot is up on the PTR, I re-ran the weapon analysis with the new stuff included. Here's a sneak preview of the results:

Image
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7801
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Iselian » Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:31 pm

Hey Theck, there's new gear up, can you-... how do you do that?!
Sweet baby Jesus in a handbasket, my Shiver is looking pathetic.
Iselian
 
Posts: 116
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby honorshammer » Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:51 pm

theckhd wrote:Since some of the new loot is up on the PTR, I re-ran the weapon analysis with the new stuff included. Here's a sneak preview of the results:

Image


I appreciate the work you do. You make us all better. When you do this next time would you include a sort just by TPS with 1V+3C
User avatar
honorshammer
Moderator
 
Posts: 2147
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:35 am
Location: Charleston, SC

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:41 pm

honorshammer wrote:I appreciate the work you do. You make us all better. When you do this next time would you include a sort just by TPS with 1V+3C

Yeah, it's one of the graphs the code automatically generates, I just didn't upload them all since we haven't seen all the icecrown loot yet.

Though the list is getting pretty long, so the TPS sorted lists might have to include only tank weapons.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7801
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Meloree » Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:12 pm

I'm going to have to nab me a Remorseless when it drops next. Nothing says "I'm bored, give me new content" quite so eloquently as trying to break 6k single-target dps while tanking.

An interesting question, though, Theck, has the gearset been updated to a T9-esque set for evaluating stats at entry-level Icecrown?
Meloree
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:28 pm

Meloree wrote:An interesting question, though, Theck, has the gearset been updated to a T9-esque set for evaluating stats at entry-level Icecrown?

The current set is mostly 245-ilvl yes. I updated it a while back (I don't remember exactly when, I'd have to search through my posts in the thread).

I'm not sure what would be the most useful set for gauging Icecrown progress. Full 258 would be out of reach for many players, but full 245 would seem reasonable.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7801
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Meloree » Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:44 pm

I guess it really depends on how well the stats scale relative to each other, and how vast the stat spread is. I know I'm personally getting pretty close to running into declining value for strength, even in MT gear, at roughly 2200 BV raidbuffed, it won't take too many Icecrown upgrades before I'm falling down the diminishing returns slope, so I guess it's highly relevant what set gets chosen.

The higher end set, being closer to the DR curve, might remain relevant for longer in Icecrown, but would probably be less relevant early on. Tough call.
Meloree
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 1420
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:15 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby lythac » Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:10 pm

I'm not sure how you are modelling HS procs, but with ICR less block is pushed off, so more blocking. It should be very minor for TPS.
Ryshad / Lythac of <Heretic> Nagrand-EU
User avatar
lythac
Moderator
 
Posts: 2676
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:10 am

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Soralin » Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:37 am

Meloree wrote:I guess it really depends on how well the stats scale relative to each other, and how vast the stat spread is. I know I'm personally getting pretty close to running into declining value for strength, even in MT gear, at roughly 2200 BV raidbuffed, it won't take too many Icecrown upgrades before I'm falling down the diminishing returns slope, so I guess it's highly relevant what set gets chosen.

I'm in virtually identical gear to you (using 258 tier chest rather than the NB one, and 258 Satrinas rather than 245) and hadn't really considered approaching DR from Strength.

Bearing in mind that Tier Helm has Block Value on it and the shield also has additional block value... perhaps blizzard will itemise gear with minimal block value so that strength will be enough to get us to the right point. It's not as though Block Value will be all that useful in icecrown given that block capping with Chill of the Throne will be virtually impossible in progression tanking gear.
User avatar
Soralin
 
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:43 pm

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Petrus » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:14 am

Even now I'm viewing BV in a largely threat-oriented light. If I need more threat, I can swap one or two pieces here or there for a liiiitttle bit more BV and push myself ahead on threat.

Here's the thing I'm most curious about, Theck. Most of the weapons we have here can be easily quantified by just a few things:

1. Item level, which directly affects the weapon DPS (which directly affects HotR, essentially)
2. Speed ( which affects how much the white hits are for and the SoV hits are for)
3. Presence of threat stats (Hit/Exp)

Thus, we can probably extrapolate just how much a given weapon will hit for depending on item level, speed, and presence of threat stats. Most of us will be using a tank weapon (i.e. one with defensive stats on it and high stam) and of those, all but QS have strength on them, so by "threat stats" here I mean hit and/or expertise because those will add threat (if under either cap) beyond what Weapon DPS from iLevel and the weapon speed will.

We can also say, for example, that all the item level 232 weapons (of which there are now FIVE) produce similar TPS. Titanguard and Shiver may be slightly ahead because they have hit and if you are under cap, then hit will produce an additional increase in threat. Looking at your graph, this is true. Crusader's Glory/Ardent Guard will have the lowest threat because it is fastest (1.5), and Rimefang's Claw will have highest (depending on the user's hit rating) because it is slowest (1.7).

All of that is fairly well known. Using that information, however, would it be possible to create a general graph of where weapons of given item levels might fall? If we assume all tank weapons will be sub-2 speed (and probably 1.4-1.8 speed at that), I would guess it possible to make a very basic graph based entirely on iLevels. A 232 weapon will do x more than a 226 weapon, a 245 weapon will do x more than a 232 weapon. The case where this gets interesting is with slow things like broken promise where the slow speed puts it massively ahead of other weapons of its iLevel.

Is it possible to make a graph like that? Simply assume weapon dps and a weaponspeed range and plug it in and make a generic graph?

Thank you again for all the work you do, Theck. It really helps a lot of us who don't have the time or know-how to do the math ourselves.

Edit: Here are the item levels that would have to be covered:

200 (143.x)
213 (156.x)
219 (163.x)
226 (171.x)
232 (178.x)
239 (188.x)
245 (196.x)
251 (205.x)
258 (216.x)
264 (226.x)
277 (???.?) (probably 246 or so?)
User avatar
Petrus
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:45 am
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby DisRuptive1 » Sun Nov 15, 2009 7:30 pm

theckhd wrote:Image


Can you make one for Horde, too?
User avatar
DisRuptive1
 
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:13 am

Petrus wrote:Is it possible to make a graph like that? Simply assume weapon dps and a weaponspeed range and plug it in and make a generic graph?

It is, but it's probably not that interesting. You're basically plotting several straight lines for different weapon speeds on a TPS vs. Weapon ilvl graph. It would be relatively simple to whip up if I had a spare 30 minutes.

As far as determining where a fictional weapon with a particular speed/ilvl combination would fall, it might be marginally interesting. For practical purposes of comparing the weapons that actually exist in-game, I don't think it's as effective as the bar graphs - if anything it's probably more complicated.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7801
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:15 am

DisRuptive1 wrote:Can you make one for Horde, too?

The script automatically generates one for horde as well, I just didn't upload it because I was in a hurry. Once we have a more finalized list of Icecrown weapons, I'll do a full 3.3 weapon analysis post. For now, you can just note where the new weapons fall in the list and compare it to the old 3.2 horde bar graph.
"Theck, Bringer of Numbers and Pounding Headaches," courtesy of Grehn|Skipjack.
MATLAB 5.x, Simcraft 6.x, Call to Arms 6.0, Talent Spec & Glyph Guide 5.x, Blog: Sacred Duty
User avatar
theckhd
Moderator
 
Posts: 7801
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:06 pm
Location: Harrisburg, PA

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby Petrus » Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:49 pm

Oh, I think I just meant the bar graph. I think the main usage would be for short-term stuff like PTRs - We don't know of any 264 or 277 tank weapons yet, for example, so if we could figure out what the weapon DPS of an iLevel 277 weapon would be, we could put a "fake" 277 weapon on the bar graph with everything else just to guess at where it will fall in relation to everything else and how much of an increase it would be over the existing weapons.

I guess it would mostly just be to fill in gaps for iLevels of weapons that we haven't seen yet, mostly from Icecrown 25 and 25-hard.
User avatar
Petrus
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 940
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:45 am
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Re: Theck's MATLAB TPS analysis (A Jonesy derivative work)

Postby raenac » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:49 am

OMG, whats this gonna be on the list?
Image

http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/51947/troggbane-axe-of-the-frostborne-king/

I'm assuming the speed is going to lend to more TPS? :D
raenac
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:57 am

PreviousNext

Return to Advanced Theorycraft and Calculations

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
?php } else { ?