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Glyph of Righteous Defense, 3.0.8

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby thenNATEgoes » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:27 am

Dhani wrote:RD is still king in certain situations. I believe Sapph is immune to normal taunts but is definitely tauntable by RD, so if your healers lose their heads for 10 seconds the fight isn't a wash if the MT goes down.


He's definitely immune. Perhaps you were second on threat which is why you picked it up easily?
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Postby Aleph » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:29 am

I don't have much hit rating on my gear (around 164 hit), Hand of Reckoning has missed too many times for me to feel comfortable dropping Glyph of Righteous Defense.
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Postby Dhani » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:38 am

I personally haul around a +73 hit rating trinket and some +hit food to reach 254+ spell hit rating just for HoReck for the 4HM fight. Every other fight I've done, RD seems to fit the bill just fine (although I'll admit I've accidently RD'd an add off the MT during Sarth before.. that wasn't too pretty).
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Postby majiben » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:03 pm

Why aren't you zerging thane down?
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Postby Dhani » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:12 pm

Majiben wrote:Why aren't you zerging thane down?


We've done that, but the DPS was so used to the 'classic' method that it was too sloppy a transition for that night ;p Still got em down but it was the dirtiest 4HM I've ever seen.
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Postby majiben » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:23 pm

Dps just sit put and kill the first guy then dance like normal. I don't know how you run with dps so inflexible that they are still stuck on a method that they haven't touched for 2 years. Pardon me while I call bull shit. I bet the raid leader is the one who really wants it.
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Postby Dhani » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:40 pm

When we first started doing 25 man Naxx, we didn't even think to consider 'Zerg Thane' method and just went a few weeks dancing in the classic fashion.
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Postby phaqueue » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:25 am

Dhani wrote:When we first started doing 25 man Naxx, we didn't even think to consider 'Zerg Thane' method and just went a few weeks dancing in the classic fashion.


so what you're really saying is that your DPS has no problem dancing around with the mobs... but they are completely incapable of following an easy strat based around "stay still and all out DPS"

yea... sounds like a bigger problem to me...
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Postby Arizara » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:24 pm

for ranged mobs consider RD then HoR for more threat on a single mob. its not much extra but its not a big waste either, though my favorite is HoR before AS so the mobs are clustered more
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Postby Belarkan » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:40 am

thenNATEgoes wrote:
Dhani wrote:RD is still king in certain situations. I believe Sapph is immune to normal taunts but is definitely tauntable by RD, so if your healers lose their heads for 10 seconds the fight isn't a wash if the MT goes down.


He's definitely immune. Perhaps you were second on threat which is why you picked it up easily?


Not really:
http://wowwebstats.com/6uvanpkrj3lbs?bl ... ibution%22

00:54'15.531 Malygos #5 is afflicted by Main de rétribution.
00:54'15.531 Belarkan Main de rétribution hits Malygos #5 for 95 Holy.


Main de rétribution = hand of reckoning.

While for RD:

00:54'12.594 Belarkan Défense vertueuse misses Malygos #5.


The miss is is a bit strange since I do have the RD Glyph and over 100 +hit.
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Postby Makaijin » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:34 pm

Belarkan wrote:
thenNATEgoes wrote:
Dhani wrote:RD is still king in certain situations. I believe Sapph is immune to normal taunts but is definitely tauntable by RD, so if your healers lose their heads for 10 seconds the fight isn't a wash if the MT goes down.


He's definitely immune. Perhaps you were second on threat which is why you picked it up easily?


Not really:
http://wowwebstats.com/6uvanpkrj3lbs?bl ... ibution%22

00:54'15.531 Malygos #5 is afflicted by Main de rétribution.
00:54'15.531 Belarkan Main de rétribution hits Malygos #5 for 95 Holy.


Main de rétribution = hand of reckoning.

While for RD:

00:54'12.594 Belarkan Défense vertueuse misses Malygos #5.


The miss is is a bit strange since I do have the RD Glyph and over 100 +hit.


Not to burst your bubble, but they're talking about Sapph being immune, while that WWS is for Malygos.
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Postby Conaan! » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:21 pm

Majiben wrote:Dps just sit put and kill the first guy then dance like normal. I don't know how you run with dps so inflexible that they are still stuck on a method that they haven't touched for 2 years. Pardon me while I call bull shit. I bet the raid leader is the one who really wants it.


you can easily turn that wording around to "i dont know how your tanks and healers are so incapable of moving across the room every 30 seconds, or is it so hard to stick to a simple strategy?"

really, either way is fine, just because you *think* one works better doesnt mean it is, different raid comps, different strategies
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Postby majiben » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:25 am

Conaan! wrote:
Majiben wrote:Dps just sit put and kill the first guy then dance like normal. I don't know how you run with dps so inflexible that they are still stuck on a method that they haven't touched for 2 years. Pardon me while I call bull shit. I bet the raid leader is the one who really wants it.


you can easily turn that wording around to "i dont know how your tanks and healers are so incapable of moving across the room every 30 seconds, or is it so hard to stick to a simple strategy?"
Not really. Pre 3.0.8 it required well timed taunts. The zerg method requires 2 people to pay attention, that's the two people in back dancing together, the swapping method artificially draws out the fight and requires all 10 people to pay attention.

Also what does tank and healer capability have to do with dps being inflexible? It was either a group of loudmouth people who wanted to use the worst swapping method or the raid themself as there is little chance that the zerging method can fail.
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Postby Conaan! » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:34 am

Majiben wrote:
Conaan! wrote:
Majiben wrote:Dps just sit put and kill the first guy then dance like normal. I don't know how you run with dps so inflexible that they are still stuck on a method that they haven't touched for 2 years. Pardon me while I call bull shit. I bet the raid leader is the one who really wants it.


you can easily turn that wording around to "i dont know how your tanks and healers are so incapable of moving across the room every 30 seconds, or is it so hard to stick to a simple strategy?"
Not really. Pre 3.0.8 it required well timed taunts. The zerg method requires 2 people to pay attention, that's the two people in back dancing together, the swapping method artificially draws out the fight and requires all 10 people to pay attention.

Also what does tank and healer capability have to do with dps being inflexible? It was either a group of loudmouth people who wanted to use the worst swapping method or the raid themself as there is little chance that the zerging method can fail.


its not the matter of who has to pay attention, its a matter of what works, besides, if we dont ever give any challenge to the dps then what are we going to do when ulduar comes out and an extremely movement oriented fight appears, boss zerg again? probally not

keep your dps on their toes and do it right, especially if you dont think you have enough dps for it
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Postby daemonym » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:06 am

Martie wrote:I don't think I've seen hand of reckoning miss yet.

I'll go do some testing.


i haven't seen it miss yet, but i have seen it do nothing. no focus, no threat change, no nothing. just a 61 point bitch slap. oddly enough my back up taunt is more likely to fail than my primary one, shouldn't that be reversed? if rd doesn't work or it's a time like on 4h, i want my so called back up to actually back me up, not risk failing even harder.
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