Any real justification for using Titanium Plating?

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Postby king_fate » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:43 am

Yes, sorry. While I recalculated it with 1.06 * 1.08 (and it still came up to .11) I mistakenly wrote 1.08 * 1.08. :oops:
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Postby king_fate » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:57 am

Isetnefret wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to enchant to the natural strength of the shield and do BV on the Wall for Trash/Threat?


Hmmmm, but then again Wall has the highest avoidance/mitigation of them all.


Yes, but long term its a threat sheild and Hero's Surrender is a better Avoidance/Mitigation option for MTing.
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Postby Jonesy » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:01 am

king_fate wrote:My fault, I used 1.16 instead of 1.08 * 1.06 and didn't really explain myself well. While It comes down to the same number, it is more fair to state that to compare BV to Stamina for a single hit the ratio is:

BV /( 1.30 redoubt) = Stamina / (1.08 Sacred Duty * 1.06 Combat Expertise * 10)


I'm sorry, still not understanding. 1 point of BV on gear extends your lifeline on a single hit by 1* 1.3 (from redoubt) = 1.3. You're dividing?

1 point of Stamina on gear extends your lifeline on a single hit by 1 * 1.08 (SD) * 1.06 (CE) * 1.1 (BoK) * 10 (sta->health) = 12.6

I dislike the "number of hits until you're fully healed" model because I think it's pretty disjoint from practical tanking. However, if you want to use that model, the figure is that:

BV*hits-per-topup-frequency = stam * 9.69
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Postby king_fate » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:19 am

Jonesy wrote:I'm sorry, still not understanding. 1 point of BV on gear extends your lifeline on a single hit by 1* 1.3 (from redoubt) = 1.3. You're dividing?

1 point of Stamina on gear extends your lifeline on a single hit by 1 * 1.08 (SD) * 1.06 (CE) * 1.1 (BoK) * 10 (sta->health) = 12.6

I dislike the "number of hits until you're fully healed" model because I think it's pretty disjoint from practical tanking. However, if you want to use that model, the figure is that:

BV*hits-per-topup-frequency = stam * 9.69


Typically, I don't include BV into Effective Health consideration at all because of Attack speed issues; but to discuss it here I wanted to give the Plating every advantage possible (As you noted, I didn't even include BoK).

If you continue your final calculation and solve for Stam you get:

.103 * BV * hits-per-topup-frequency = stam (The separation between the .103 number and my .11 number is due to your inclusion of BoK)

And then plug in our 40 BV enchant you'll find its impact on Effective healt to be equal to:

4.127 * hits-per-topup-frequency = stam

If we are shooting to be superior to the +18 Stamina enchant you'd find that:

4.127 * hits-per-topup-frequency = 18

hits-per-topup-frequency = 4.3605

I think its reasonable to assume you're gonna take 4.3 hits before you are topped up against multiple mobs, but against a boss I do not. Therefore for Effective Health purposes, I feel that the Plating falls short of one of the most basic TBC enchants.
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Postby Jonesy » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:49 am

Just for completeness, 18 stam assuming 3/3 TbtL is and Kings is 6.6 sph. Per 9s rotation, ignoring resealing, that's:

2.375 dps from consecration (assuming 10% miss)
1.114 dps from holy shield (assuming 50% avoidance, 2.4 swing speed)
1.742 dps from the SoV dot (assuming a 5-stack)
2.178 dps from judgement (assuming a 5-stack of SoV and 5% miss)

0 dps from both ShoR and HotR.

7.064 dps * 1.43 * 1.9 = 19.19 TPS

So Titanium Plating is at least optimal for threat and DPS.
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Postby Ewige » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:42 pm

I put BV on my An Hero, because I like to DPS when tanking and doesn't afraid of anything.
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Re: Any real justification for using Titanium Plating?

Postby Scottzirra » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:28 pm

king_fate wrote:
My question is am I forgotting or under-estimating anything? Or (with solid threat) should I be quickly moving back to +DEF or +STA.



I think that BV is an extremely viable stat to stack once you are both above 540 def and over the 102.4% mark. I personally am at about 26.7k hp unbuffed, and prefer to pick up BV in any slot that I can currently. It is fantastic for aoe tanking, when you can full block incoming damage. It is great for Holy Shield Slam, it is great for big crits in pvp as well. I do not know about everyone else here, but I enjoy pvping as prot and can kill most classes.

I guess what I am saying, is that BV is now my preferred stat to stack, since all other req's are met. With the obvious exception of hit, simply because it just doesn't feel needed.
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Re: Any real justification for using Titanium Plating?

Postby fuzzygeek » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:42 pm

Scottzirra wrote:I do not know about everyone else here, but I enjoy pvping as prot and can kill most classes.


what do you do with mages?
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Postby knaughty » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:56 pm

king_fate wrote:IMHO, The +BV meta gem isn't as good as +2% AC for many bosses and will almost certainly be inferior for all raid bosses at the next level.

In Naxx-25, they're equivalent over the course of a night, based on my data & gear level. Breakpoint is "Block value provides 20% physical mitigation"

My last two Naxx-25 clears came in at 19.6% & 19.0% (using armour meta).

I should really pull my finger out and put together a BV set rather than just wearing the same gear for everything...
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Postby king_fate » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:21 am

Knaughty wrote:In Naxx-25, they're equivalent over the course of a night, based on my data & gear level. Breakpoint is "Block value provides 20% physical mitigation"

My last two Naxx-25 clears came in at 19.6% & 19.0% (using armour meta).

I should really pull my finger out and put together a BV set rather than just wearing the same gear for everything...


"Over the course of a night" sounds like you're including trash where the BV meta gem will provide greater benefit. Maybe I'm wrong in that assumption, but to me the +BV meta gem should only go into a BV set for large trash packs.
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Postby lusisia » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:30 am

king_fate wrote:
MrDuck wrote:Simple enough...
BV on the Skull of Ruin shield for trash or threat set
Defense on Wall of Terror for my maintank set
Stam on Royal Crest for my Malygos25 set (and here goes barricade of Eternity or Hero's Surrender if it ever drops also:P)


Wouldn't it be better to enchant to the natural strength of the shield and do BV on the Wall for Trash/Threat?


I was thinking the same thing.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:53 pm

Isetnefret wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to enchant to the natural strength of the shield and do BV on the Wall for Trash/Threat?


Hmmmm, but then again Wall has the highest avoidance/mitigation of them all.



And the Skull has the highest block value.
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Postby MrDuck » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:10 pm

king_fate wrote:
Isetnefret wrote:
Wouldn't it be better to enchant to the natural strength of the shield and do BV on the Wall for Trash/Threat?


Hmmmm, but then again Wall has the highest avoidance/mitigation of them all.


Yes, but long term its a threat sheild and Hero's Surrender is a better Avoidance/Mitigation option for MTing.
Ayt,make surrender drop then and we might talk ^^ However, i might still stick with wall, 'cos i'm running with quite high avoidance lately (around 30% dodge and 21% parry raidbuffed), and the diminishing returns hurt a lot,so the point of sunderrer for me would mostly be the stam difference. Then again, Wall has more armor and such...dunno, i think surrender is better shield overall, that's for sure, but in my gear set i'm not really much after getting him :O
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Postby Orms » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:22 am

king_fate wrote:
Isetnefret wrote:52 BV is applied to everything that hits you.

You're probably right on the +def thing, not getting hit at all is better than taking a mitigated hit.

52BV vs. 18 stam? I think that's more of a situational thing.

Wouldn't it also be 54.6 with the Meta? Not that it's a huge difference..


IMHO, The +BV meta gem isn't as good as +2% AC for many bosses and will almost certainly be inferior for all raid bosses at the next level.

The only situations where ranking benefit between 52 BV or 18 stamina would change would be

1. Non-Physical Attack where 18 Stamina wins
2. Bosses that attack fast where you have to consider the number of hits between heal.

obviously you want Stamina for the first and for the second situation it would take a boss hitting you several times to make things even

18 Stamina / 4.4 Stamina = 4.09 Attacks.

If your healers expect you to be able to eat 4 attack w/o a heal, you need better healers. ;)
5% block value is so much better than 2% AC dude. First, it is a small D/TPS increase which is always welcome. Second, 2% armor from items only works out to be ~400 armor. When you're rocking 25k+ armor that 400 is completely insignifigant. We're talking an extra .1% mitigation. 5% block value for me was like ~75 block value raid buffed I believe. Most bosses in WotLK hit like a little girl, that 75 block value is an easy 1-1.5% mitigation on boss fights.

18 stamina is a waste of an enchant on your shield, even if youre stamina stacking. I chose the new 40 BV (54 after talents and meta) because it's aditional threat and mitigation. I, like many of you, are probably at a point where we can tank any of the wuss bosses in this game which ease (exept maybe sarth3d). Raid buffed I have upto 40k health, 58% pure avoidance, and almost 2000BV with my libram proc up. and obviously "uncrushable" with holy shield up.
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Postby Khayne » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:22 am

Orms wrote: 5% block value is so much better than 2% AC dude. First, it is a small D/TPS increase which is always welcome. Second, 2% armor from items only works out to be ~400 armor. When you're rocking 25k+ armor that 400 is completely insignifigant. We're talking an extra .1% mitigation. 5% block value for me was like ~75 block value raid buffed I believe. Most bosses in WotLK hit like a little girl, that 75 block value is an easy 1-1.5% mitigation on boss fights.

18 stamina is a waste of an enchant on your shield, even if youre stamina stacking. I chose the new 40 BV (54 after talents and meta) because it's aditional threat and mitigation. I, like many of you, are probably at a point where we can tank any of the wuss bosses in this game which ease (exept maybe sarth3d). Raid buffed I have upto 40k health, 58% pure avoidance, and almost 2000BV with my libram proc up. and obviously "uncrushable" with holy shield up.


Even if putting 18 stamina to shield isn't needed, doesn't mean it can't be better than the BV. Otherwise we could just say that gemming for expertise isn't bad since you don't need the actually useful gems since you can tank with those too :)

Wuss bosses now doesn't mean all bosses are/will be wusses, and we usually gear for the harder ones or future (also, depends on howw good/bad guild you got =).

Also while your armor may only go up by 0.2 (i think that's what mine went up), you need to remember that if you add 0.2 on top of 60, that 0.2 reduces more than 0.5

That said, if i were block capped i prob. use the bv meta too, atm my set however isn't so i rather use armor now since it's allways there.
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