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@WE Fanatics

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Postby Lonso » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:03 pm

That blue post seems to be inaccurate. WowWiki has some info on this which I posted in another thread around here somewhere but am too lazy to find it for you now. I also spec'd all 5 points of WE on top of my +5 human racial at one point and saw no reduction in my parry % versus Void Reaver that weak versus the week before. I took the points back out.

If you buy into what WowWiki has to say about this, the sweet spot is +5. Beyond that the benefit is very small. My experience seems to support that claim.
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Postby Blaen99 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:46 pm

Lonso wrote:That blue post seems to be inaccurate. WowWiki has some info on this which I posted in another thread around here somewhere but am too lazy to find it for you now. I also spec'd all 5 points of WE on top of my +5 human racial at one point and saw no reduction in my parry % versus Void Reaver that weak versus the week before. I took the points back out.

If you buy into what WowWiki has to say about this, the sweet spot is +5. Beyond that the benefit is very small. My experience seems to support that claim.


The EJ post best fits the data I've been gathering since AQ40.

The EJ post is slightly incorrect, but it's the only thing that "fits" with all of the data points I've got on the subject - from level 60 mobs @ 60 to boss mobs @ 70
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Postby Sabindeus » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:04 pm

I would trade Perception for Arcane Torrent in a second.
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby Fridmarr » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:16 pm

jere wrote:
Crezax wrote: I wouldn't say it's useless.

Let's say you increase your weapon skill by 4.

Against a mob 3 levels higher than you, you get: 0.8% lower chance to miss, 0,4% lower chance to get dodged, 2,4% to be parried, and a 0,8% higher chance to crit. That means a 4,8% net increase.


If you add up the numbers in his example, you should get 4.4, not 4.8. Are his numbers wrong, or is his math wrong? Or are they both wrong? It is all speculation on our part, which is where Fridmarr's post comes into play. They gave us info that was somewhat incorrect somewhere, and have never confirmed/denied/corrected it, leaving us wondering. In either case something is wrong, and even the testing at Elitist Jerks shows something is not right with the numbers somewhere.

EDIT: the blue post in question is here: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 06&sid=1#2


Thanks for clarifying my post, and including the offending blue quote as well. You are exactly correct, they made post saying that weapon skill does a certain thing, in particular against a level 73 opponent. That post does not seem to be correct, and they've never addressed the topic again. That's just bad form considering the mathematics involved in raiding/talent selection at times.
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Postby Blaen99 » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:13 pm

Sabindeus wrote:I would trade Perception for Arcane Torrent in a second.


Perception is actually a great skill, but I want the +weapon skill :P

I have to spend 3 talent points for what a human gets innately.
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Postby Blaen99 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:30 am

Bit of an update.

2/2/1/2 imp Judgement, 5/5 Reckoning, 3/5 WE vs. 5/5 Imp SoR:

My threat has decreased significantly on a single target now - I actually lost aggro on a boss and trash for the first time ever in Kara.

I'm not so sure how great those are. My parsing indicates a loss in threat as well, but it's somewhat difficult to quantify the exact amount.
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Postby Neuron » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:45 am

Well, your sig says 135 spell damage. Is that right?
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Postby Blaen99 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:52 am

Neuron wrote:Well, your sig says 135 spell damage. Is that right?


I logged out in my Maulgar set apparently.

I run between 330 and 580 spell damage typically.
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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:58 am

Blaen99 wrote:
Neuron wrote:Well, your sig says 135 spell damage. Is that right?


I logged out in my Maulgar set apparently.

I run between 330 and 580 spell damage typically.


Well what does 2/2/1/2 imp judgement mean? That's a good amount of spell dmg, you should be fine without Imp SoR, I'd say most pally tanks do not have that talent. I'm not sure what's missing.
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Postby Blaen99 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:37 am

Fridmarr wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:
Neuron wrote:Well, your sig says 135 spell damage. Is that right?


I logged out in my Maulgar set apparently.

I run between 330 and 580 spell damage typically.


Well what does 2/2/1/2 imp judgement mean? That's a good amount of spell dmg, you should be fine without Imp SoR, I'd say most pally tanks do not have that talent. I'm not sure what's missing.


2/2 OR 1/2 Imp Judgement.

(There's no difference in any paladin's cycle between 2/2 and 1/2 typically. I have 2 cycles that take advantage of the difference - of 12 now. 1/2 is the optimal points in all honesty. But 1/2 is a big difference from 0/2.)

And unfortunately, I'm -not- fine without imp SoR.

As I mentioned, I actually lost aggro with this new build. I'm looking at my TPS figures (Both 30-second and full fight), and they have dropped markedly with this new build (Something around ~8%-12% depending on fight).
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Postby Neuron » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:14 pm

I thought everyone agreed on the "don't get 10 in holy" unless you are a baelor fanatic. I personally can't imagine doing anything without the 5% parry. That is cool that you tested it, because I was only debating the 10 in holy and decided never to do it. That and I thought maybe the 10% strength would be part of an SOB build. Now I am pretty confident I will never do it.

But I do wish, counter to what many say on the boards, that I had a larger mana pool. I run out of mana in Kara >_>. Then again in a 25 man I probably don't get to use exorcism so gets a little better.
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Postby Mortehl » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:20 pm

Mana gets better. (Watch people cry out that I'm nuts)

When you get 5/5 of your Tier 4, plus a couple of other parts, you wind up with about a raid buffed 8k mana pool. You're also a threat rocket which makes clearing trash a breeze. It also helps for certain fights like Lurker, Leotheras, Morogrim Murlocing, and void walker.
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Postby Blaen99 » Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:21 pm

Neuron wrote:I thought everyone agreed on the "don't get 10 in holy" unless you are a baelor fanatic. I personally can't imagine doing anything without the 5% parry. That is cool that you tested it, because I was only debating the 10 in holy and decided never to do it. That and I thought maybe the 10% strength would be part of an SOB build. Now I am pretty confident I will never do it.

But I do wish, counter to what many say on the boards, that I had a larger mana pool. I run out of mana in Kara >_>. Then again in a 25 man I probably don't get to use exorcism so gets a little better.


It's called 10/41/10.

It's been my standard spec for about a month, but I finally got around to quantifying the benefit.

0/51/10, 0/49/12 and 0/50/11 are all inferior to 10/41/10 threat-wise.

Unfortunately, the former 3 builds may have a slight mitigation advantage. I'm trying to figure out how to balance it all atm - fuck Prot's bloatedness.
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby Lave » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:28 am

jere wrote:For #2: Weapon Skill doesn't increase your chance to parry. It only reduces your enemies chance to parry you. If you get tons of parries with your weapons, it isn't due to weapon skill.


seems like i fucked things up.. wtb german tankadin site plx :D - to clarify: the mob parried almost 50% of my attacks due to my very low weaponskill (105 vs. lev62 creature) while there were not as much dodges.. when weaponskill went up less of my attacks were parried until i hitted 310skill at wich point parries happened roughly as often as dodges.

so pushing weaponskill had high influence to parry.. less to dodge

and thats exactly what the eu cm stated
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heh

Postby Mavrix » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:52 am

I've been 10/41/10 for an exceedingly long time. Posted about it months ago. Went with it the day the patch went live that put in the 1handed specialization changes. Never regretted the changes. :)
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