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@WE Fanatics

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@WE Fanatics

Postby Blaen99 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:47 pm

I just ran into something very interesting.

http://elitistjerks.com/454148-post352.html

If this is accurate, then the first 3 points in WE produce a larger benefit than 3 points in precision.

That's equivalent to Precision's 3% hit for 3 points...and it reduces chance to be dodged and blocked on top of that, which nicely exceeds anything precision offers.

Thoughts? I may have been convinced to drop imp SoR and pick up 3/5 WE instead.
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Postby Ownopotamus » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:15 pm

Human Paladins FTW :)
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:16 pm

Ownopotamus wrote:Human Paladins FTW :)


Fuck you too ;P.
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby adese » Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:14 pm

Blaen99 wrote:I just ran into something very interesting.

http://elitistjerks.com/454148-post352.html

If this is accurate, then the first 3 points in WE produce a larger benefit than 3 points in precision.

That's equivalent to Precision's 3% hit for 3 points...and it reduces chance to be dodged and blocked on top of that, which nicely exceeds anything precision offers.

Thoughts? I may have been convinced to drop imp SoR and pick up 3/5 WE instead.


To me, this says that WE is only useful for non-humans. As a human, you only gain an additional 1% hit if you go 5/5 WE. At 3/5 WE, you only gain 0.6%.

For non-humans, it definitely looks much more worthwhile to pick up - 3.5% at 5/5, and 3.1% at 3/5.

Based on that post, I'd probably go for 3/5 WE if I wasn't human, and I could spare the 3 talent points.

I was thinking about dropping Reckoning for 5/5 WE, but that doesn't look like a very good idea. This also confirms why I didn't see much of a different when I went 3/5 WE a month or so ago.
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby Blaen99 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:19 pm

adese wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:I just ran into something very interesting.

http://elitistjerks.com/454148-post352.html

If this is accurate, then the first 3 points in WE produce a larger benefit than 3 points in precision.

That's equivalent to Precision's 3% hit for 3 points...and it reduces chance to be dodged and blocked on top of that, which nicely exceeds anything precision offers.

Thoughts? I may have been convinced to drop imp SoR and pick up 3/5 WE instead.


To me, this says that WE is only useful for non-humans. As a human, you only gain an additional 1% hit if you go 5/5 WE. At 3/5 WE, you only gain 0.6%.

For non-humans, it definitely looks much more worthwhile to pick up - 3.5% at 5/5, and 3.1% at 3/5.

Based on that post, I'd probably go for 3/5 WE if I wasn't human, and I could spare the 3 talent points.

I was thinking about dropping Reckoning for 5/5 WE, but that doesn't look like a very good idea. This also confirms why I didn't see much of a different when I went 3/5 WE a month or so ago.


Pretty much confirms my personal observations on WE as well.

WTB: Human racials, PST! Will trade BElf racials!
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby Fridmarr » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:27 pm

Blaen99 wrote:I just ran into something very interesting.

http://elitistjerks.com/454148-post352.html

If this is accurate, then the first 3 points in WE produce a larger benefit than 3 points in precision.

That's equivalent to Precision's 3% hit for 3 points...and it reduces chance to be dodged and blocked on top of that, which nicely exceeds anything precision offers.

Thoughts? I may have been convinced to drop imp SoR and pick up 3/5 WE instead.

I've been using 3/5 WE for awhile now, my comparisons of my WWS combat logs have been inconclusive on the issue. However, I really find it a bit irresponsible for blizz not to provide a better explanation of how weapon skill works. It would be one thing if they simply chose not to publicly disclose information about it at all, but once a blue makes a post with actual numbers they ought to either support that post, make corrections to it, or rescind it altogether.
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Postby Everlight » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:46 pm

Note that the quoted post only deals with miss. DPS characters only really care about that, since they're stabbing monster ass and don't have to worry about parries.

Now, if 5/5 WE provides 3.5% reduced miss, AND reduces dodge & parry, this makes it an OK spend.
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby Lave » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:38 pm

Fridmarr wrote:However, I really find it a bit irresponsible for blizz not to provide a better explanation of how weapon skill works. It would be one thing if they simply chose not to publicly disclose information about it at all, but once a blue makes a post with actual numbers they ought to either support that post, make corrections to it, or rescind it altogether.


actually eu cms did post hard numbers about weapon skill
"This post claims that against a mob 3 levels higher than you, each point of weapon skill provides 0.2% to your hit/crit chance, and -0.6% parry, -0.1% dodge to your opponent."

i believe in this.. even though elitejerks did some testing about that parryreducing beeing lower than that blue cm stated.

why i do? cause it just makes sense..
1. weapon skill is found on many tank weapons, enemys parrys are something any tank would want to avoid (next swing sooner etc)
2. i just bought 2 axes for my lev62 fury alt.. 105 weapon skill - and guess what? i got tons of parrys.. much more than dodge and miss combined
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Postby Nymeros » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:47 pm

The one big measurable result, if not the -Miss/Parry/Dodge tracking, is the real threat per second gain from taking the talent.

Exact numbers aside (the only real thing confirmed seems to be Miss, with the Parry/Etc values in question), the threat per second increase from the talent is highly visible.
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Postby Joanadark » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:50 pm

WTB: Human racials, PST! Will trade BElf racials!


I dueled a famous server ret paladin today, and when I died, over 15 minutes later, Arcane Torrent was the deciding factor.
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:57 pm

Joanadark wrote:
WTB: Human racials, PST! Will trade BElf racials!


I dueled a famous server ret paladin today, and when I died, over 15 minutes later, Arcane Torrent was the deciding factor.


That would only matter if I actually cared about PvP beyond using it as way to get gear for PvE :P
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Postby Joanadark » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:05 pm

if you spam seal of blood, you turn yourself into a giant lazer, and people think youre hacking.
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Postby Blaen99 » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:47 pm

Joanadark wrote:if you spam seal of blood, you turn yourself into a giant lazer, and people think youre hacking.


You'll have to pry SoB out of my cold, dead hands :P.

THAT racial's not up for trade!
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby Girard » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:54 am

too much complicated math...

someone simplify!
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Re: @WE Fanatics

Postby jere » Tue Aug 28, 2007 6:30 am

Lave wrote:
Fridmarr wrote:However, I really find it a bit irresponsible for blizz not to provide a better explanation of how weapon skill works. It would be one thing if they simply chose not to publicly disclose information about it at all, but once a blue makes a post with actual numbers they ought to either support that post, make corrections to it, or rescind it altogether.


actually eu cms did post hard numbers about weapon skill
"This post claims that against a mob 3 levels higher than you, each point of weapon skill provides 0.2% to your hit/crit chance, and -0.6% parry, -0.1% dodge to your opponent."

i believe in this.. even though elitejerks did some testing about that parryreducing beeing lower than that blue cm stated.

why i do? cause it just makes sense..
1. weapon skill is found on many tank weapons, enemys parrys are something any tank would want to avoid (next swing sooner etc)
2. i just bought 2 axes for my lev62 fury alt.. 105 weapon skill - and guess what? i got tons of parrys.. much more than dodge and miss combined


For #2: Weapon Skill doesn't increase your chance to parry. It only reduces your enemies chance to parry you. If you get tons of parries with your weapons, it isn't due to weapon skill.

Fridmarr knows about the post. If you read what he was saying, he mentions
Fridmarr wrote:but once a blue makes a post with actual numbers they ought to either support that post, make corrections to it, or rescind it altogether.


Also, I wouldn't hold too much onto that blue post as he can't even add the numbers up correctly:

I wouldn't say it's useless.

Let's say you increase your weapon skill by 4.

Against a mob 3 levels higher than you, you get: 0.8% lower chance to miss, 0,4% lower chance to get dodged, 2,4% to be parried, and a 0,8% higher chance to crit. That means a 4,8% net increase.


If you add up the numbers in his example, you should get 4.4, not 4.8. Are his numbers wrong, or is his math wrong? Or are they both wrong? It is all speculation on our part, which is where Fridmarr's post comes into play. They gave us info that was somewhat incorrect somewhere, and have never confirmed/denied/corrected it, leaving us wondering. In either case something is wrong, and even the testing at Elitist Jerks shows something is not right with the numbers somewhere.

EDIT: the blue post in question is here: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.htm ... 06&sid=1#2
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