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Paladin vs warrior threat generation beyond Karazhan

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Paladin vs warrior threat generation beyond Karazhan

Postby Belarkan » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:40 am

Hi,

A post on the UK forums about protection paladin issues (yes, one more...) surprised me a lot.
At my level, I think I generate more threat than a warrior even on a single target, but some said that even with 200 spell damage they can not compete with warrior threat generation after Karazhan.
I'd appreciate feedback from those who MT bosses after Karazhan. I'm a bit surprised since I've always heared that we generate more threat than a warrior at similar gear level.
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Re: Paladin vs warrior threat generation beyond Karazhan

Postby Diocaska » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:50 am

Belarkan wrote:Hi,

A post on the UK forums about protection paladin issues (yes, one more...) surprised me a lot.
At my level, I think I generate more threat than a warrior even on a single target, but some said that even with 200 spell damage they can not compete with warrior threat generation after Karazhan.
I'd appreciate feedback from those who MT bosses after Karazhan. I'm a bit surprised since I've always heared that we generate more threat than a warrior at similar gear level.


Hmmmm, really not sure about that.

Maybe its people pulling numbers off Omen again (it calculates TPS over a shorter time then KTM, so glancing at it can make you think you're producing more TPS than the true average).

But I very much doubt that same level geared warriors can produce more threat than us.
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Postby Thels » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:08 am

Depends on details.

In a Karazhan run last night, the Warrior tank was running around with 800 Block Value to keep some aggro. Even though he had rage problems, he put forth some nice threat.

I can get just over 600 Block Value in blocking gear, meaning I still get slightly more damage than the Warrior does. I have around 300 spelldamage in that gear, so keeping up to the Warrior on threat shouldn't have been a problem if that gear didn't leave me mana-starved.

I switched to spelldamage tanking gear, and even though it only gives me around 50 extra spelldamage or so, I had a lot easier time keeping the aggro. I guess it gave me a lot more mana to play with, which ain't a good thing if you consider where our mana comes from...
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Postby Kvaern » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:39 am

For a random SSC boss comparison on the Lurker Below then the currently most progressed alliance guild on my server had their warrior building 60k threat at the first dive and I had build 90k at the same time, both being guild first kills.

I got that from comparing videoes and it may or may not be a fluke but it seems to match the threat lead I have over my own guilds warriors on trash (though I didn't expect it to be that much of a difference on a boss, even a soft hitter like lurker).
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Re: Paladin vs warrior threat generation beyond Karazhan

Postby Questioner » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:01 am

Belarkan wrote:..some said that even with 200 spell damage they can not compete with warrior threat generation after Karazhan....


200 spell damage is pretty low for T5 level content. Remember, you lose exorcism on non-demon/undead mobs, and that makes a difference.

I run around 360 spell damage, and I've only downed 3 T5 level bosses.
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Re: Paladin vs warrior threat generation beyond Karazhan

Postby Lore » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:21 am

Questioner wrote:
Belarkan wrote:..some said that even with 200 spell damage they can not compete with warrior threat generation after Karazhan....


200 spell damage is pretty low for T5 level content. Remember, you lose exorcism on non-demon/undead mobs, and that makes a difference.

I run around 360 spell damage, and I've only downed 3 T5 level bosses.


Indeed. The "My only spell damage is on my weapon" philosophy doesn't work past Karazhan. I have close to 600 spell damage in my full threat gear (which gets close to 900 when my trinket procs).
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Postby Cragus » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:44 am

Ahh the joys of T6 and such gear, *waves fist at SSC and TK* :(
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Postby Lore » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:56 am

Only about 60 of that spell damage is from BT/Hyjal gear ;) Most of my threat set is still T4.
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Postby enbee » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:38 am

I have over 400 spelldmg raidbuffed and I don't put out more threat then our mt, about the same, we fight over trash mobs all the time, and it goes either way depending on crits/misses/parries. Paladins aren't the single target threat masters as some claim we are :<
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Postby Afraithe » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:41 am

I find that threat doesn't scale well with the gear upgrades, at least not in the upgrades ive gotten, I have lost a lot of block rating, and that means less threat, altho more dodge/parry/armor makes me take less damage. Blockrating is the easiest way of pushing you over uncrushable, loosing a lot of that has made it harder to get over uncrushable, even tho i have vastly better gear now than before. Geif blockrating gems!
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Postby Lonso » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:36 am

The easier to attain weapons such as Continuum Blade have 121 spell damage. Add +40 by enchanting it for 161. Even if you were in 5/5 of the Righteous set you'd have another 110 spell damage. 5/5 Justicar adds 143.

I'm currently 4/5 Justicar with the Gavel of Unearthed Secrets from Lower City which has 159 + 40 from enchant for 199 total. For my highest threat set I actually still use the Righteous chest with 3 +12 stam gems in it since it has more mana, +dmg and stam than Jadeskull. For high threat fights I use an Adept's Elixir for +24 spell damage combined with a Elixir of Major Fortitude. Then I eat Blackened Basilisk for another +23. I was around 440-450 (448 iirc) spell damage last night with no gear from SSC or TK adding to spell damage.
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Re: Paladin vs warrior threat generation beyond Karazhan

Postby Daeren » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:26 pm

Lore wrote:
Questioner wrote:
Belarkan wrote:..some said that even with 200 spell damage they can not compete with warrior threat generation after Karazhan....


200 spell damage is pretty low for T5 level content. Remember, you lose exorcism on non-demon/undead mobs, and that makes a difference.

I run around 360 spell damage, and I've only downed 3 T5 level bosses.


Indeed. The "My only spell damage is on my weapon" philosophy doesn't work past Karazhan. I have close to 600 spell damage in my full threat gear (which gets close to 900 when my trinket procs).

Indeed, I go pretty much the same, although a tad lower gearwise than you. It's a world of difference and I am known for my burst damage. There's very few time I take out my HP set, although that's what I spent the most effort on.
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Postby Kvaern » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:49 am

enbee wrote:I have over 400 spelldmg raidbuffed and I don't put out more threat then our mt, about the same, we fight over trash mobs all the time, and it goes either way depending on crits/misses/parries. Paladins aren't the single target threat masters as some claim we are :<


Obviously you lose a lot of reactive threat if the mob isn't targetting you but your warrior because his shieldslam crit and your AS didn't.

There's no doubt an SSC/TK geared paladin puts out more threat than a similary geared warrior.
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Postby Teah » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:56 am

Quick question how much spell damage should I be aiming for to tank TK/SSC? 350 buffed?

Right now I'm running with ~250 and my DPS can't catch me.. granted.. my DPS currently really suck. We've been pushing people hard at VR but our best attempt was 30% left in 8minutes. :( At least better DPS is becoming interested in us as we are running TK now..
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Postby enbee » Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:16 pm

Kvaern wrote:
enbee wrote:I have over 400 spelldmg raidbuffed and I don't put out more threat then our mt, about the same, we fight over trash mobs all the time, and it goes either way depending on crits/misses/parries. Paladins aren't the single target threat masters as some claim we are :<



There's no doubt an SSC/TK geared paladin puts out more threat than a similary geared warrior.


hmm :)

Can't say I agree with that, unless you get to block half your holy shield charges on average each 10 secs or more on whatever you're tanking.

If you're convinced this is true you should be looking at the way your warriors play, they might not be very efficient. I mean I have a couple warrior tanks in my guild, one who does more or less the same TPS as me, generally more on slowhitters, and 2 who dont even do 70% of my TPS, warrior is considerably harder to get a good rotation going with for optimal TPS output, and alot of them seem to fail at it.
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