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UPDATE: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Pelendralaar » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:29 pm

djlar wrote:What's the exact number on defense rating to get 1 defense point?

This changes level by level right? Perhaps a table with lvls 71-80 will help..


yes it does change by level, it slowly increases the higher in level you are. At 80 it is 4.92 def rating for 1 def skill.
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Postby Fionneous » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:09 pm

Majiben wrote:
Fionneous wrote:Someone asked this earlier in the thread and it received no response, and I've been wondering it myself:

What exactly is a "deflect" ?
We're not quite sure. The most widely accepted idea is they are parry from a ranged attack.


That's roughly the conclusion I've drawn based on raw observation without too much digging.

They're quite aggravating.
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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby Ascendant » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:35 am

Aleph wrote:
Gamingdevil wrote:as far as I know, HotR can not miss,

I keep reading this, but have yet to find an actual theorycraft post with data to back it up. If this is true, does it also mean that once we get expertise capped HotR will always hit?


I think I have sent enough hammers into orbit to disprove that claim. :P
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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby majiben » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:36 am

Ascendant wrote:
Aleph wrote:
Gamingdevil wrote:as far as I know, HotR can not miss,

I keep reading this, but have yet to find an actual theorycraft post with data to back it up. If this is true, does it also mean that once we get expertise capped HotR will always hit?


I think I have sent enough hammers into orbit to disprove that claim. :P
You would first need to prove that those were not deflects or dodges. Have two high defense paladins duel each with HotR and SoL to get a fast parse of it's combat table breakdown.
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Postby arilink » Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:44 am

I was happy with 23 expertise until you told me that it's far inferior to all other tanking stats *sigh*
Seeing almost no dodges and deflects/parry was so nice. Thanks for the disillusion.
But that's not enough.
I thought stacking dodge and parry equally would reward benefits due to avoiding the diminishing returns.
So what you are telling me?
You'd need astronomic values for that to ever happen.
So I'm just dumping that loosy 40 badges belt I happily bought yesterday for the Azjol-Nerub thingy, great!
At least my 6% hit you won't take away and don't tell me I'm still missing 3%! ;(
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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby Chiyou » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:18 am

Honorshammer wrote: plus our white damage has gone up which also adds to our threat (though it does not receive the Righteous Fury modifier).


Hm, i thought that we generate 1.43 threat per 1 point white damage if Righteous Fury is up, because of the salvation change. So it is less threat as Holy but better then "white threat" in tbc. Am i wrong?
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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby Snake-Aes » Wed Nov 26, 2008 4:28 am

Chiyou wrote:
Honorshammer wrote: plus our white damage has gone up which also adds to our threat (though it does not receive the Righteous Fury modifier).


Hm, i thought that we generate 1.43 threat per 1 point white damage if Righteous Fury is up, because of the salvation change. So it is less threat as Holy but better then "white threat" in tbc. Am i wrong?
You're correct. We do generate "antisalved" threat with white swings, so it's not like it's a waste. Holy damage still produces 90% more threat in comparison though.
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Postby Winterhavok » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:40 am

Just some information that I found, it appears through combatlog parses that a boss (lvl+3) mob has approx 15% parry rating. I am going to start logging mine to provide empirical data to support or refute this but I found it here Expertise Rating
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Postby Kracus » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:23 am

Draenei have a racial aura that gives +1% to hit. This reduces the requirement for melee hit-capping to 263 hit rating.


from ej, it isn't up on this one.
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Postby jcamper1337 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:33 am

ok this might sound stupid as all hell but this is what i see.

I currently use both Tankpoints and Tankadin (the new one I just downloaded)

Its telling me my total avodiance is 85.62

though when i do the math looking at my statitics on my defensive menue and adding 10% miss to the equasion I get 95.36 when Holy shiled is active.

The 10% miss im comming up with is comming from tank points and tankadin because i remember pre WoTLK you gained Miss only based on your defense level


Maybe Im just stupid but this is what i see

Defense: 540
Dodge: 21.60
Parry: 15.84
Block: 17.92 (No holy shield)
Block: 47.92 (with Holy shield Up)

Ok so with my math the totals add up to 95.36 with holy shield up No where 85.62 that tankadin and Tankpoints are telling me

Can someone maybe help me out with this and see actually what else I should be stacking to finish the 102.3% avodiance i Need to be *Uncrushable* (yes i know its no longer a factor but I like to play with stats)

Oh and Armory Link is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Jcamper If this Is any Help to helping me Thanks For your Time
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Postby Winterhavok » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:46 am

Maybe the new tankadin is showing Diminishing Returns on Dodge and Parry
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Postby Bilal » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:04 pm

jcamper1337 wrote:ok this might sound stupid as all hell but this is what i see.

I currently use both Tankpoints and Tankadin (the new one I just downloaded)

Its telling me my total avodiance is 85.62

though when i do the math looking at my statitics on my defensive menue and adding 10% miss to the equasion I get 95.36 when Holy shiled is active.

The 10% miss im comming up with is comming from tank points and tankadin because i remember pre WoTLK you gained Miss only based on your defense level


Maybe Im just stupid but this is what i see

Defense: 540
Dodge: 21.60
Parry: 15.84
Block: 17.92 (No holy shield)
Block: 47.92 (with Holy shield Up)

Ok so with my math the totals add up to 95.36 with holy shield up No where 85.62 that tankadin and Tankpoints are telling me

Can someone maybe help me out with this and see actually what else I should be stacking to finish the 102.3% avodiance i Need to be *Uncrushable* (yes i know its no longer a factor but I like to play with stats)

Oh and Armory Link is http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... &n=Jcamper If this Is any Help to helping me Thanks For your Time


Comparing to level 70 stats, I see our Block is below 22 percent and it really bugs me off you know. That's why I am still using Block Rating Enchant keeping in mind a high defense at my current level (level 73). I can't link my profile because of the maintenance,so I'll list what I can remember:
Name : Bilall
Server: Alleria
Defense :511
Dodge: 23 %
Block : 21.5 % without(Holy Sheild and enchanting Saronite by 15 Block Rating Sheild Enchant). I would be happy if it's possible to move this qoute to a separate discussion.

Therefore, I am looking and will keep digging for items with Block Rating and Value.
Note: I am still trying to maintain uncrushability against mobs +3 levels higher than me.
Last edited by Bilal on Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bilal » Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:21 pm

djlar wrote:What's the exact number on defense rating to get 1 defense point?

This changes level by level right? Perhaps a table with lvls 71-80 will help..


I was wondering if there's anything out there regarding this matter. Although I am lvl 73 and it's early to shoot for 99 percent perfection, I feel comfortable to maintain my charecter at every level,so I thought adding 5 Skill defense is a good idea(490 Defense skill at lvl 70,495 at lvl 71and 500 at lvl 72). Again I would like to know if this quote deserves a seprate topic.
Note: I think it's better to maintain 22.4 percent Block on every newly acheived lvl to stay uncrushable against mobs with + 3 levels higher than me.(This is my opinion and I am looking forward for some guidance).
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Postby econ21 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:59 pm

I am confused - should we be stacking hit now? According to PsiVen's calculations, it is worth only a little more than 1/3 of strength's tps:

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... e&p=290130

This seems to imply we should just roll with the punches - or rather the misses - and not worry about it. Threat does not seem to a big issue for us and hit does not seem a very efficient way of getting threat anyway.

But then I read a post by PsiVen saying he was looking for +hit gear. And I am also starting to get frustrated by my misses.

What do people think?
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Postby theothersteve7 » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Well, not unlike avoidance versus mitigation, threat spikes limit a party's survivability too.

I throw Avenger's Shield, it misses one of the three mobs, people start dropping AOEs. Fixable, sure, but a mess.
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