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UPDATE: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby honorshammer » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:59 pm

Mortehl wrote:Check wording on expertise cap. DODGES are stopped at that level of expertise, but you can still be parried.

Also, awesome summary post.


Most of the expertise artciles I could find talked about the Dodge cap. Finding the Parry cap was a bit more difficult.
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Postby Mortehl » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:08 pm

Honorshammer wrote:
Mortehl wrote:Check wording on expertise cap. DODGES are stopped at that level of expertise, but you can still be parried.

Also, awesome summary post.


Most of the expertise artciles I could find talked about the Dodge cap. Finding the Parry cap was a bit more difficult.


Fair enough sir. It has been my experience that most expertise articles are melee dps related. They are attacking behind so they never need to worry about parries unless they screw up. In our case however, it is a concern.
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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby slipey » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:34 pm

Honorshammer wrote:You need 3.94 Expertise Rating at level 70 to get 1 Expertise skill. That rises to 8.2 at level 80. So at the worst case, to make up the difference a Paladin would need 8 Expertise Skill or about 65 Expertise Rating. Humans with Axes or Swords can lower that to 41 and Dwarves with a mace (in the Billiard Room, lol) can lower that to 24.6.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Humans get a 3 expertise bonus to Swords and Maces, not axes.

Also, what kind of bonus do dwarves get for using maces? I couldnt find it listed under their racial abilities.

Great post though. Thanks for the info.
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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby honorshammer » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:15 pm

slipey wrote:
Honorshammer wrote:You need 3.94 Expertise Rating at level 70 to get 1 Expertise skill. That rises to 8.2 at level 80. So at the worst case, to make up the difference a Paladin would need 8 Expertise Skill or about 65 Expertise Rating. Humans with Axes or Swords can lower that to 41 and Dwarves with a mace (in the Billiard Room, lol) can lower that to 24.6.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Humans get a 3 expertise bonus to Swords and Maces, not axes.

Also, what kind of bonus do dwarves get for using maces? I couldnt find it listed under their racial abilities.

Great post though. Thanks for the info.


I'll make the correction in my OP, thanks.

Dwarves get 5 Expertise with Maces. So far there are no high end tanking maces. =(
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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby Anubisknight » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:18 pm

Honorshammer wrote:(We won't discuss that rare Orc Paladin and his Axe bonus)


Racial Discrimination!!
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Postby Aranon » Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:40 pm

Saw you were picked up on the glorious fount of knowledge that is wowinsider. Nice to see good paladin tanking articles cropping up there. Well done, honors.
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Postby Drowden » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:12 pm

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Re: Your CAPtains: Crit, Block Hit and Expertise

Postby Neara » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:58 pm

Aleph wrote:
Gamingdevil wrote:as far as I know, HotR can not miss,

I keep reading this, but have yet to find an actual theorycraft post with data to back it up. If this is true, does it also mean that once we get expertise capped HotR will always hit?



just checked recount for my last Utgarde Pinnacle run, and i have 1 miss (0,4%) with HotR.
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Postby Kelarik » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:38 am

Nice article, cleared up a lot of my questions about stats to shoot for, but one thing still annoys me, and that is the magical 102.4%.

Because DR now applies to defense (according to the character sheet at least), does that now mean that we calculate our 102.4% with a flat 4.4% miss to be safe, or is it still acceptable to take it as 5% + whatever -hit% you get from defense?
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Postby Kracus » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:18 am

Thanks for the summary, just realized I'm just at the hit cap already. Bit away from the BC.
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Postby Consecrator » Mon Nov 24, 2008 6:48 am

Can you explain why we are the only ones that can block 100% of the time? Im just not very familir with warrior tanks so i assumed t=if they were at the cap it would be the same. sorry for noob question but im a pally not a warrior
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Postby Janduin » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:54 am

Consecrator wrote:Can you explain why we are the only ones that can block 100% of the time? Im just not very familir with warrior tanks so i assumed t=if they were at the cap it would be the same. sorry for noob question but im a pally not a warrior


Shield block was changed in 3.0 to have one charge (I think) and have a longish cooldown. Holy shield, on the other hand, was changed only in that the duration is now longer than the cooldown, so we do not have to worry about unblocked hits in the split second before putting it back up any more. You can see how the shield block changes vs. Holy shield would leave us able to block 100% and them not. They got critical blocks, which is supposed to even out the damage mitigated by blocking (though there is some concern this will scale too well for them) but the bottom line is their damage is now spikier than ours, and spiky damage is bad, so this is advantage paladins. If they were ever able to get block-capped only from gear they would be the undisputed better tanks in terms of survival, but with current gear this is not possible.
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Postby djlar » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:24 pm

What's the exact number on defense rating to get 1 defense point?

This changes level by level right? Perhaps a table with lvls 71-80 will help..
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Postby Fionneous » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:14 pm

Someone asked this earlier in the thread and it received no response, and I've been wondering it myself:

What exactly is a "deflect" ?
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Postby majiben » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:20 pm

Fionneous wrote:Someone asked this earlier in the thread and it received no response, and I've been wondering it myself:

What exactly is a "deflect" ?
We're not quite sure. The most widely accepted idea is they are parry from a ranged attack.
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