How important is Reckoning?

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Louranthas » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:39 pm

I've always prayed that reckoning would get one final change to make it worth while. Instead of making it chance based, make it a cooldown. 2 mins would work well.

As for a spec choice over all, I've found nothing that was more beneficial to me when shifting those five points elsewhere.
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meh

Postby Mavrix » Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:39 am

I deviated from the standard spec and haven't regretted my choices. My current spec of 10/41/10 seems to work well for me. Not saying there aren't other specs, I just haven't seen the arguments that they are really superior to what I put together. Now if I had someone do math that showed you get more threat out of precision + weapon expertise, then I'd probably switch over, but I haven't seen that and can't bend my head around the math myself. Faster cooldown on judgement does not impress me as being all that useful since a lot of times that cooldown comes around when it's time to refresh HS anyway.
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Re: meh

Postby adese » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:04 pm

Mavrix wrote:Faster cooldown on judgement does not impress me as being all that useful since a lot of times that cooldown comes around when it's time to refresh HS anyway.


While that is true, just because Judgement is up doesn't mean that you need to cast it and then re-seal right away. I typical cast Judgement as soon as I can, and if HS is up then as well, I will cast that and then re-seal. I get more threat out of the Judgement than the seal, anyway.
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Re: meh

Postby jere » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:22 pm

adese wrote:
Mavrix wrote:Faster cooldown on judgement does not impress me as being all that useful since a lot of times that cooldown comes around when it's time to refresh HS anyway.


While that is true, just because Judgement is up doesn't mean that you need to cast it and then re-seal right away. I typical cast Judgement as soon as I can, and if HS is up then as well, I will cast that and then re-seal. I get more threat out of the Judgement than the seal, anyway.


QFT

This is the key to getting the most dps/tps out of judgements if you have 2/2 improved judgement. Don't be afraid to swing once or twice without a seal up, it won't kill your threat much at all, and Improved Judgements more than makes up the few times you ever have to do it.
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Postby Blaen99 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:35 pm

Another fan of 10/41/10 here, reckoning isn't very useful for me.

With that said, I don't find 2/2 imp judgement particularly useful. 1/2 is as many points as I will put in it, otherwise the extra talent is normally wasted due to how most of my cycles are timed.
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Postby Lieris » Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:51 am

It's tempting to drop it for improved SoC and improved ret aura. Especially so if they really do end up changing improved SoC with sanctified crusader like at Blizzcon, that would be a huge raid buff.
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Postby adese » Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:56 am

While Reckoning isn't all that useful when tanking in a Raid (although it does still proc from time to time), the main reason that I can't bring myself to drop it is soloing.

When I'm soloing, I'm going to pull as many mobs as I can handle and keep Consecrate and Holy Shield up. I typically use SoW, and possibly JoW as well (depending on how long it takes me to kill one mob). With that many mobs hitting me, Reckoning is up pretty frequently. This helps to keep my mana up without having to stop and drink (or only pull 1 mob and do SoW/JoW to regen mana).

If there comes a time where I need the 5 points for something else in order to be a better raid tank, I will probably drop reckoning and put them somewhere else. However, I haven't found a spot where those 5 points can be put to a better use yet (at least at my level of raid progression).
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Postby Everlight » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:34 pm

I specced out of Reckoning for this week, into 5/5 Weapon Expertise, just to see what would happen.

While the difference wasn't night and day with SoV, it was noticeable. Against the Curator, my total miss rate (miss/dodge/parry) was 25.4% with Reckoning. With Weapon Expertise, it was only 16.6%.

That modifier to miss rate has a fairly significant effect on my total threat output, so yeah, I'm reasonably happy with Weapon Expertise. Though I'm not so happy with SoV (wtf is with a 35% resist rate on the judgement??? crap luck or what?).
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Postby Lorath » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:38 am

That is very interesting, thanks for the numbers. Are they consistent against all bosses or just a 'good run'? Grateful for more numbers :)
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Postby Magnusharkov » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:20 am

Does anyone have any particularly strong reasons *not* to go for 10/41/10? I've been looking at going to it from 0/49/12

My hunch is that Imp SoR will give more threat than reckoning and weapon expertise by quite a margin. It will also essentially stop me using SoV which is both a good and bad thing, threat will be much less spikey in any case. My only concern is whether I'll really miss the improved judgement and whether weapon expertise was doing more than I'd imagined.
The other minor perk with this spec is some more mana with improved intellect. When I'm forced to put on my healing gear it should be a non trivial amount.

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Postby Igrado » Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:33 am

I don't think anyone going 49/12 is taking weapon expertise. You should have 1h weapon spec. I think the cookie cutter 49/12 is the following: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aZVhtIx0dggqzVbx
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hey

Postby Mavrix » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:07 am

Igrado, the point of this thread is that the former "cookie cutter" 0/49/12 may not be the best spec. People are pointing out alternative specs to that and suggesting reckoning may no longer be ideal compared to alternatives.
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Postby Igrado » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:10 am

yeup. i'm retarded. again.

*sigh*

*looking for delete button*
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