(3.0.3.9183) WotLK TPS Weapons Spreadsheet

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Soranthalas » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:53 am

steadypal wrote:hit > expertise ?


I've been trying to understand this better. Expertise is conceptually twice as effective at hit before the dodge cap. But expertise only affects auto attacks, HotR, and SoR/SoV/SoCorr hits. Hit also affects Judgements, ShoR, AS, Hammer of Wrath, and Holy Shield (which can still be resisted right?).
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Nov 27, 2008 10:43 am

HS is modeled without resists at the moment because I'm not sure exactly what its resist rate follows, plus it's already a pretty wide-open approximation to assume 4 hits per cast.

You are correct in that the reason expertise performs so poorly is that it affects so little, while hit affects pretty much everything but is still not that great for threat. However due to the lack of a real need for threat I've taken to stacking it anyway -- not having precision is driving me nuts!

If you're actually able to get your hands on the SoV glyph, you're probably really close to the dodge cap anyway. Expertise is as much a throwaway stat to me now as Strength was pre-3.0.
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Postby Spamdrew » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:50 pm

I would be very interested to see a comparison between these figures and similar ones for other tanking classes (especially warriors). While I don't expect it to be a major factor if it is the case that our threat stats are not as balanced as warriors this will give warriors a slight advantage when it comes to gear and gearing.
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Postby Steve » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:20 pm

The issue here is less the ability to distribute stats and more the choice of how much expertise actually costs in the item budget relative to its effectiveness.

Personally, I would prefer it if Blizzard were better able to correlate a stat's item budget cost to its actual in game practical value. But I also understand the difficulties they face in doing so since these values vary by context. I think they could have and should have valued expertise slightly differently, however.

Making it 150% more valuable than hit before the dodge cap, and 75% as valuable after seems like a much more reasonable distribution than 200%/100%.

The other tank classes do have more efficient means for increasing threat, but paladins have enough to remain competitive, especially in a 25 man setting.

That's fairly ironic given how little a tanking paladin was buffed by others in a 25 man raid setting in TBC.

Think about all the buffs/debuffs that get thrown around and how tanking paladins will seemingly benefit from a large majority of them.
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Postby Minnerva » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:52 am

so let me get this straight, you are saying titansteel guardian is greater than titansteel bonecrusher but bonecrusher not having any strenght is greater than red sword wich has strenght?
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Postby majiben » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:50 am

Minnerva wrote:so let me get this straight, you are saying titansteel guardian is greater than titansteel bonecrusher but bonecrusher not having any strenght is greater than red sword wich has strenght?
By about 15 TPS. Would you trade 1% avoidance for 15tps? I would. In most cases a dps weapon will get you slightly better threat but at the cost of survival. We no longer need to rely upon the weapon slot as our major threat source, it's pretty well spread out over our gear now.
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Dec 08, 2008 7:49 am

Titansteel Guardian is not better than Titansteel Bonecrusher. It was in the beta for a very long time, but no longer.
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Postby cordelia » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:02 am

PsiVen wrote:You are correct in that the reason expertise performs so poorly is that it affects so little, while hit affects pretty much everything but is still not that great for threat. However due to the lack of a real need for threat I've taken to stacking it anyway -- not having precision is driving me nuts!


Agreed on Expertise. I'm very ambivalent about this. It makes the expertise on all the tanking gear virtually useless to us, and makes gearing to eliminate boss parries very couterproductive. On the other hand, it is nice not to worry about parry-gibs, and it's also nice that our threat stacking comes down to STR, STR, STR, and that STR scales so well.

As for Hit, two thoughts. (1) It does not actually affect nearly as many things as you think. SoV is not affected by it, since it's a dot. Consecrate and Holy Shield as well. Thus, we're left with only JoV, ShoR, and HotR. (2) The hit cap may be lower than you think. Definitely do some hands-on testing yourself before possibly over-stacking it.
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Postby majiben » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:38 am

Don't discount white damage.
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Postby kaanman36 » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:50 am

cordelia wrote:As for Hit, two thoughts. (1) It does not actually affect nearly as many things as you think. SoV is not affected by it, since it's a dot. Consecrate and Holy Shield as well. Thus, we're left with only JoV, ShoR, and HotR. (2) The hit cap may be lower than you think. Definitely do some hands-on testing yourself before possibly over-stacking it.


Don't forget, that hit also affects our Avenger's Shield, and taunt.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:03 am

You'd have to be trying rather hard to reach beyond the hit cap in tanking gear, which is now well established at 8% for physical attacks. I can hit 6% if I swap down a piece.
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Postby halabar » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:42 pm

With the Titansteel guardian getting nerfed, the Titansteel bonecrusher is easily the preferred choice now for crafted items.
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Postby halabar » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:42 pm

With the Titansteel guardian getting nerfed, the Titansteel bonecrusher is easily the preferred choice now for crafted items.
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Postby majiben » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:08 pm

I would still prefer a tanking weapon, even the lvl 74 group quests ones to an expensive and ecessive threat stick.
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Postby Kelaan » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:52 pm

Agreed. Granted, I am still trying to get to the block cap... but my threat (even when offtanking, yay JoL, lol) is Plenty. I'd rather have the defense.

I found the SoV glyph on the AH; it was overpriced, but I snapped it up. (so ... I guess not overpriced, lol). Now, I pretty much see Expertise as a wasted stat, compared to other things. Sure, I'd like to be expertise-capped ... but I see defensive stats as more immediately important.
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