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(3.0.3.9183) WotLK TPS Weapons Spreadsheet

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby cordelia » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:16 pm

PsiVen wrote:1) Yes
2) No, that's the SotT talent

1) It should, I thought I fixed that in the last version. I'll take a look.
8) Since IHS doesn't exist one of those is redundant. Not sure what you about the AP, but I'll look at it
9) Yes, it should be


(2) If that's the case, you need to multiply the BV from STR of the weapon by an additional 1.3, I think.

(1) The version I'm using is 08_0919_9095PaladinTPS.xls (eventhough the title is still 8970).
(8) In the Num tab, you have HS row which isn't used, and then IHS row, which you do use; For the latter, it has a 0.18 SP multiplier and a 0.06 AP multiplier. Only the SP multiplier is used in the threat calculation.
(9) It's not, not like that change in 1 tps threat matters, though. lol.

PS> <3 fast responses.
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Postby kurros » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:01 pm

I'm a newb at spreadsheets, so maybe I'm just doing something wrong...

But when I increase base expertise by 1, I see EnAvoid decrease by .25...

Shouldn't it decrease by .50? 1 point of expertise will prevent .25% dodge AND .25% parry.
Anyway, lets just agree to disagree. Go away, or I'll just start reporting you to the mods for being a troll. In exchange, I'll stop pointing out your stupid in public.
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Postby majiben » Mon Nov 03, 2008 5:24 pm

All I can think of is the spread sheet has the character at the soft cap already and thus only lowers parry. That or that it's a mistake.
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:01 pm

It should be decreasing the total by .5%, in fact I haven't properly accounted for the dodge cap so it should be decreasing it well beyond that.

If it's bugged that would explain why Expertise seems to do poorly. I'll look into this as well.
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Postby cordelia » Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:29 am

This looks like an issue solely regarding the baseExpertise. Expertise on the weapon seems to be calculated correctly. baseExpertise values are not.
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Postby Nehor » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Coming into this thread late and after reading the whole conversation I thought I would try summing up what is being said here and see if I have the just of it right.....

Because spell damage and attack power scale our "spell damage", hence our threat, equally the basic idea would be to stack these two stats so your total is higher compared to possibly just focusing on one of the two stats.

Would this only be true until lvl 75 when we get Shield of the Righteous when Str. could become more important with the advantage of Str also increasing our BV thus increasing the damage from that ability?
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Postby majiben » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:56 pm

Nehor wrote:Coming into this thread late and after reading the whole conversation I thought I would try summing up what is being said here and see if I have the just of it right.....

Because spell damage and attack power scale our "spell damage", hence our threat, equally the basic idea would be to stack these two stats so your total is higher compared to possibly just focusing on one of the two stats.
It would be if both had the same cost the same amount.

Code: Select all
1 SP costs 2 AP from gear which costs 2.5 AP from str


Baiscally it's best to look for str. The only spell power you have should come from TBL and raid buffs.
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Postby Nehor » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:09 pm

I must have missed that part of the thread. How does 1 SP cost 2 AP?

Thanks for the help. :)
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:17 pm

1 SP does not exactly cost 2 AP, it's a little cheaper.

Most stats are now normalized on a 1:1 basis. Strength, Agility, Crit Rating, Expertise Rating, etc. all cost 1 "rating" in itemization. Some stats are still different. For example, Stamina is 2/3 the price, so you get 50% more Stamina than you would a standard rating in its place. Spell Power is .83ish, so you get slightly more. AP is exactly 2, based on the 1 STR = 2 AP equivalence for most melee classes.

You can see the itemization costs most easily in gems. For example, you can see that with epic BT gems:
15 Stamina = 10 Dodge Rating = 12 Spell Power = 20 Attack Power

All of them have the same budget. But because you get 20 AP for the price of 12 SP, you gain more from gearing for AP.
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Postby majiben » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:18 pm

Nehor wrote:I must have missed that part of the thread. How does 1 SP cost 2 AP?

Thanks for the help. :)
Well all items have a budget. Let's say there's a trinket being made that is worth 50 item points

1 SP = 1 IP
1 AP = .5 IP
1 STR = 1 IP

So blizzard could make a trinket that has 50 SP, 100 AP, or 50 STR. With talents and kings the str trinket would grant paladins 125 AP making it the best trinket for us.

This is a rough estimate as the values aren't the true ones but it works as a demostration.
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Postby Nehor » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:20 pm

Thanks Majiben and PsiVen! I think I have it now. Appreciate the help.
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Postby towelliee » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:37 am

So whats the verdict over all?

1 STR = 2AP or 2.5 with Kings?
1AP = 1SP ?
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:22 am

Beta RC1 (hopefully current to 3.0.3) released.

CHANGES IN THIS VERSION:

- SBV: Base value is not multiplied by Shield Spec. This is is intended, added a clarification that this value is your talented base SBV.

- SotP: This ability was applied twice to SoV and not applied to Judgements. This has been fixed.

- Expertise: Base value was behaving as though dodge-capped. For now there is NOT detection of when you hit the dodge cap. There is now a field for base expertise beyond the cap if you know that you hit it, however expertise from weapons will not adjust.

- Holy Shield: AP is now correctly added. Is 6% SP 6% AP per block correct?

- JoV: Base damage (of 1) added to calculations.

- Added: Average TPS Weights for abilities across all weapons.

- Updated: Coefficients from the final beta build. HS, AS still unsure.

NOTE: The latest modifications were made in OpenOffice. Please let me know if there are compatibility issues with Excel.
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:50 am

This time around, I changed AS to replace every 4th judgement. It's probably a more realistic implementation of AS into a rotation, and is probably optimal as well but I didn't check.

As predicted, the coefficient nerfs mean that spell power weapons have finally fallen from grace, even with 5/5 SotP. The Titansteel Bonecrusher is now quite certainly (~60 TPS) better than the Guardian.

Code: Select all
Titansteel Bonecrusher N-Target TPS (Stats Value Added)

         Single  Double Triple
10 STR   19.2    14.8   13.3
15 SBV   11.6     5.8    3.9
20 AP    11.5     9.9    9.4
10 HIT    7.2     4.6    3.7
10 EXP    6.9     5.3    4.8
10 CRIT   5.2     3.3    2.6
12 SP     4.7     3.8    3.5
10 AGI    4.5     2.9    2.3
15 STA    2.2     1.7    1.6
10 HASTE  1.1     0.6    0.4
BASE     3715    2902   2631


In other words, the weighted TPS stat comparison now stands:
Code: Select all
Single Target
STR  100.0%
SBV   60.5%
AP    59.8%
HIT   37.6%
EXP   36.2%
CRIT  26.9%
SP    24.5%
AGI   23.7%
STA   11.2%
HASTE  5.9%

Double Target Per Target
STR  100.0%
AP    66.9%
SBV   39.2%
EXP   36.1%
HIT   30.7%
SP    25.7%
CRIT  22.0%
AGI   19.4%
STA   11.7%
HASTE  3.8%

Triple Target Per Target
STR   100.0%
AP     70.3%
EXP    36.1%
SBV    29.0%
HIT    27.4%
SP     26.2%
CRIT   19.6%
AGI    17.3%
STA    12.0%
HASTE   2.8%


Without regard for other talent points required, here's the direct comparison people were looking for:
Base: 3560.1
SotP: 3715.1
Conviction: 3674.3

Conviction still sucks.
Last edited by PsiVen on Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby econ21 » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:08 pm

So does the weighted TPS stat comparison tell us how good the various stats are for threat? Because if it does, AP is now twice as good for us as SP? I thought in earlier discussion, the two were regarded as roughly equal? What's the intuition behind the change?

And SBV now is a better threat stat than anything bar strength? I was not expecting that.

Or am I just getting the wrong end of the stick completely?
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