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(3.0.3.9183) WotLK TPS Weapons Spreadsheet

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Carabar » Sat Oct 18, 2008 2:43 pm

Colour me confused at this stage. Basically I have the Merciless Gladiator's Gavel, but also managed to get the Kings's Defender last Kara run.

Looking at the graphs, I get the impression that King's Defender is off the chart, it's so bad? Yet the threads and the stats seem to indicate that it is good after all?
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Postby PsiVen » Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:05 pm

KD is about 20 TPS worse than the S2 Gavel at 80, so the difference will be similar at 70. It's probably your best bet for now due to its other stats, but I would still recommend picking up a S2 DPS weapon.

Helpunot wrote:I got muramasa the other night thanks to 3.0 making combat rogues obsolete for the moment. In any case, I was using tempest of chaos but muramasa with potency (not only looks hella cool on a prot pally) seems to be killing tempest on threat and actual dps. I am getting as high as 1400 DPS vs KJ with me and another prot pally tanking the reflections. He is using the hammer out of Hyjal and is doing at least 300 dps less than I am. I am seeing my melee dmg as #2 off of recount, with white crits as high as 2k.

Since threat and mitigation seem to be non issues with the ez mode raids are now, I think I am going to stick with using muramasa for the dps fun factor. I posted this because it seems on the spreadsheet that muramasa<tempest on dps and threat, but it doesn't seem to look that way in raid at the moment.


Nothing wrong with Muramasa, but if there's a 300 DPS delta it's not because of the weapon choice :)
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Postby steadypal » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:53 pm

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Postby majiben » Sun Oct 19, 2008 6:28 am

A +10 defense gem or +5def/7stamina gem if your defense is still a little low post 3.0. If you have plently of defense +15 stamina is the way to go.
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Postby halabar » Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:13 pm

Any updates for the spreadsheet with some of the other lvl 70 stuff?.. (the other lvl 70 spreadsheet only has about 5 weapons on it, so it's not terribly useful anymore).
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Postby Branir » Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:09 am

halabar wrote:Any updates for the spreadsheet with some of the other lvl 70 stuff?.. (the other lvl 70 spreadsheet only has about 5 weapons on it, so it's not terribly useful anymore).

It's not the answer you're looking for, but "does it really matter?" On my mediocre geared paladin (3/4 Kara epics, badge legs, welfare epic shield and Mana Wrath) I went up from doing around 1000 tps to peaks of 2500 tps in ZA this weekend.

I think it's safe to say that threat is a non-issue at level 70, and the current weapon TPS list is fine as you really only need some level 70 weapons to show the difference.
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Postby Helpunot » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:06 am

The whole threat doesn't matter thing seems mostly true until you get to the max level of t6 content. There are a few dps players in my guild that are nipping at my heels on a few bosses, gorefiend was one example last night. Took us just over 1 minute to kill him lol, and a few people got very very close to pulling off my 2500 + tps =D.

Scaling comes to mind here. Whereas a kara geared tank has nothing to worry about, it seems (some) dps TPS (mages in particular) scales a little bit more than our tps near the end of progression. Of course noone actually pulled off me until the 3rd boss in hyjal, where 2 people pulled off of me somehow (stuns maybe?). The rest of the fights I tanked were not an issue and maybe the result of someone trying to seriously max their dps by nuking right off the get go.
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Postby Branir » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:25 am

That does sound like a scaling issue, although you'd really want to have lots of information first. More attempts, WWS'es etc.

Regarding the 3rd boss in MH, that's strange. Being able to frontload a lot of threat right from the start is still one of the paladin's great advantages (or should be anyway). I only have healing experience in T6 content so I'm no expert on pally tanking in MH, but you should constantly be outputting more TPS than your mages, and a few stuns shouldn't make you lose aggro. But "shouldn't" is a wonderful word isn't it :P

Mind me asking about your gear, gems etc.?
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Postby Brondar » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:45 am

Hello there guys.

Well, this "threat is not an issue" thing is not working pretty well for me. Yes, I'm keeping 1.5k tps in almost every fight, but my dps friends are surpassing this threat with some frequency (is this word right?). And I'm noticing a poor tps on some humanoids fights - was generating 600-800 tps on Mech last boss this weekend.

I'm t5/badge geared, and havent made my mind about weapons yet. Im trying Sun Eater with mongoose, Fool's Bane with Potency and will try that axe from Alar, cant remember its name. I've done some trials with Hammer of Judgement too, but I felt that the tps loss is even harder when using it.

This been said, I would like to ask you:
Are you having this tps loss too? And are you been threat capped by your dpsers? What weapons are you using? And is it worth to keep a tank weapon for avoidance fights and a high dps for threat (my char is a dwarf, so I'm looking forward for a mace... I think I'll get S2 Pummeler, since my guild is not doing SSC anymore)?
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Postby Helpunot » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:48 am

Branir wrote:That does sound like a scaling issue, although you'd really want to have lots of information first. More attempts, WWS'es etc.

Regarding the 3rd boss in MH, that's strange. Being able to frontload a lot of threat right from the start is still one of the paladin's great advantages (or should be anyway). I only have healing experience in T6 content so I'm no expert on pally tanking in MH, but you should constantly be outputting more TPS than your mages, and a few stuns shouldn't make you lose aggro. But "shouldn't" is a wonderful word isn't it :P

Mind me asking about your gear, gems etc.?


Sunwell/T6 geared to twins shoulders (even though we have taken KJ down now that 3.0 came out). Muramasa is my tanking sword for everything, though I do have The Brutalizer, mura looks much cooler and me dying is not an issue. Sittin at about 17k with about 112% avoidance (finally got the illi helm to drop for the first time in our guild last night, it was all minez!) At the risk of people flaming for this or that, here is my armory link to make this post shorter.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... n=Helpunot

There is a possibility it is showing my ret gear since I have been running around getting achievements. But tuesday night it should have my prot gear on if not before (thats raid night).

Who knows? Maybe the mage critted 10x in a row or something. Overall, there is no problem with threat I was simply stating that it seems everyone in the lower tiered instances are raving about how much higher their threat is than their epic'd out dps friends, whereas my gear is similar or better level than most of my dps and they nip at my heels sometimes.

Prior to 3.0, it was pretty much the same story, but I put out equal threat as the warrior did in our guild who was WAY better geared then me at the time. And I believe loggerhead is still broken so there are no wws reports to link. Also, not a concern of mine, just postin stuff that I have observed with sunwell gear since I see a lot of posts with kara-ish gear.
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Postby PsiVen » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:20 pm

Uploaded a correction, the spreadsheet should finally be presenting accurate TPS figures for multiple targets.
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Postby Mneme » Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:40 pm

The main reason you might find your TPS lacking at 70 is the lack of Shield of Righteousness. SoR is worth roughly 75-85% of your BV in TPS, and at a T6 level you should be sitting on 800-900 BV depending on your rings and whatnot. So you're missing out on a HUGE chunk of threat until level 75. I still don't understand why we don't have access to a core tanking ability until so late a level. Imagine a warrior tanking T6 content without Shield Slam, we're in that situation right now. :\
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Postby Helpunot » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:14 am

Mneme wrote:The main reason you might find your TPS lacking at 70 is the lack of Shield of Righteousness. SoR is worth roughly 75-85% of your BV in TPS, and at a T6 level you should be sitting on 800-900 BV depending on your rings and whatnot. So you're missing out on a HUGE chunk of threat until level 75. I still don't understand why we don't have access to a core tanking ability until so late a level. Imagine a warrior tanking T6 content without Shield Slam, we're in that situation right now. :\


Yeah, on the plus side I felt I would relate another tanking experience that I had that made me look truly OP in everyones eyes =D We decided to kill everything in the game (which we did, old raids as well)in 1 week.

So void reaver, I start out and have 2 geared out druid tanks as the off tanks. VR hits 30% and the druids start to say, "are you going to let us tank him at all help?". LOL, I got hit by his knockback probably 4 or 5 times during the fight, and they actually came close after one of those knockbacks to getting ahead of me in overall threat. But, we only needed 1 tank after all and druids that I had been having problems with pre 3.0 with them ripping stuff off of me, now have no issues with whatsoever.
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Postby Helpunot » Tue Oct 21, 2008 7:26 am

1 more thought to chew on. Some people are excited about their ubr threat, others are saying they need more threat and are having issues. For the people that are having issues, has there been any kind of comparison on their gear to those that aren't having issues? Maybe it has nothing to do with strength and such, maybe they are just missing a lot more now with precision gone.

This would tend to make our threat numbers more spiky yes? Unless I am missing something and JoV and HotR cannot miss or use a different modifier other than hit to decide whether we hit the mob or not. (That doesn't sound right, but had to throw it in.)
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Postby Mneme » Tue Oct 21, 2008 9:45 am

My threat is fine vs all of my DPS, I just find myself getting rofled in TPS by my warrior co-tank. But then, he has all of his tanking abilities already and is probably actually a tad better than myself anyway, so it doesn't bother me much. Now that I'm getting used to the new abilities, I'm finding it a lot easier to toss out Hand of Salv if I see a warlock or mage creeping up on threat. Overall my impression of the changes at 70 are that we're "good enough" and will only get better as we level.
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