(3.0.3.9183) WotLK TPS Weapons Spreadsheet

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Lore » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:14 am

Dorvan wrote:
Lore wrote:Really though, if it only increased healing capabilities, who would spec it?

The idea behind changing talents is to make them good, not make them unwanted.


I agree, though if no one want the extra healing capability, why do you care about losing it? It's not the healing utility I object to though, it's the awkward scaling design....I have no objection on principle to a talent that helps both our tanking and our offhealing.


The scaling design really doesn't seem that awkward to me. Really, it's less awkward than ap+haste+hit scaling.

Also, I don't want to lose it, but I will be forced to if the talent doesn't benefit my tanking at all. It's the same reason very few people spec 20/41/0 in Live.
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Postby Dorvan » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:28 am

Lore wrote:The scaling design really doesn't seem that awkward to me. Really, it's less awkward than ap+haste+hit scaling.

Also, I don't want to lose it, but I will be forced to if the talent doesn't benefit my tanking at all. It's the same reason very few people spec 20/41/0 in Live.


Well, I've listed the reasons the scaling design is bad in antoher thread here, so I won't go over them again. You compare it to ap+haste+hit, but the problem is that this is in *addition* to all those stats, not in place of any of them.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:38 am

You know what, screw it! Remove all spell power from plate, remove all spell damage based coefficients, offset that by increasing the AP coefficients, and have holy get healing power from attack power. :D
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Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:43 am

Fridmarr wrote:You know what, screw it! Remove all spell power from plate, remove all spell damage based coefficients, offset that by increasing the AP coefficients, and have holy get healing power from attack power. :D
Yeah!
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:41 am

That causes even more problems unfortunately. All the other healing classes still use spell power, see cloaks/necks/trinkets/rings/weapons, even shields...

Updated to fix an error where SBV wasn't properly adding from base strength.
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Aug 29, 2008 11:50 am

PsiVen wrote:That causes even more problems unfortunately. All the other healing classes still use spell power, see cloaks/necks/trinkets/rings/weapons, even shields...

Updated to fix an error where SBV wasn't properly adding from base strength.


I wasn't serious.
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Postby PsiVen » Fri Aug 29, 2008 3:16 pm

Well why not? It'd be a decent idea if not for the numerous fatal problems :)
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Postby Aleriya » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:24 pm

PsiVen wrote:That causes even more problems unfortunately. All the other healing classes still use spell power, see cloaks/necks/trinkets/rings/weapons, even shields...


Of course they could give Holy paladins dual scaling mechanics with both AP and spell power :lol:
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Postby Fridmarr » Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:29 pm

Aleriya wrote:
PsiVen wrote:That causes even more problems unfortunately. All the other healing classes still use spell power, see cloaks/necks/trinkets/rings/weapons, even shields...


Of course they could give Holy paladins dual scaling mechanics with both AP and spell power :lol:


Well they are, it's called sheath of light. Given that, plus conviction and seal of command, they will wreck people in duels. lol

My suggestion was purposely a bit over the top though.
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Postby Galoheart » Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:42 pm

Im gona agree with others have said. Get completely rid of Spell Power, boost and balance our AP as needed.

Then I can finally keep picking up that heavy hard hitter and make me feel powerful.

But choose one or the other SP or AP!
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Postby Dimetrius » Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:35 am

Little question : How would the Heartless sword from Malacrass compare to the weapons listed?
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Postby Tieran » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:56 am

Baaaaah - stupid US forums I can't sign in... atleast thats what I think it is..

Can someone please reply to the poster on the forums? or give a reason as to why they will not after reading my reply.

"I am not asking for a unique itemization just pointing out that like the last poster noted our tanking mechanics are still a little schizophrenic and they seem to want us to go one way but we still favor what we had before. I am not requesting any unique itemization I would love to use SP weapons, a fast tanking weapon, or whatever they decide we should use but I would rather it be obvious then obfuscated behind layers of theory craft. "

See the issue is in bold for me..
Blah Blah we don't want unique itemization etc.. but I can bet tenner there will be items which just happen to have perfect warrior / death knight tanking stats.
And once again these perfect weapons for warrs / DKs will provide very good tps and good tanking stats, which ours will severely lack both in live.. and it looks like in BETA aswell..
And once again Paladins will find these DK / Warr weapons un-preferable in comparison to say a SP weapon which has been designed for Mages / Locks / Shadows / Eles...

Now before I go any further..:
THIS IS NOT A PLEA FOR PALADIN SPECIFIC WEAPONS - no one posting wants that I don't think..

This is a plea to fix our current talents, so that we don't find ourselves wanting that caster weapon "as was NOT intended by Blizzard with the reduction of loot tables".

If anyone has a solution to this, so HotR actually causes more tps with a fast tanking weapon, and does not get ridiculously over powered with a slow one then could they add that to the bottom ... complaining without providing an alternate solution is worthless imo and I am not familiar enough with the mechanics to think of a solution.


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Postby rozakk » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:45 am

havent seen this tested yet, can you see if "Heartless" from za ranks up in those tps ratings at all? has AP on it too.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33388

speaking of AP, i see all the AP additions to all our threat abilities (save holy shield), but im a bit thick when it comes to math. can anyone spell out how the str/ap works out (mathematically exampled) to more threat than spell dmg for us, or direct me to a thread/ej post# where it is? and is this pretty much across the bar regardless of the tanking situation?
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Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:55 am

Tieran wrote:If anyone has a solution to this, so HotR actually causes more tps with a fast tanking weapon, and does not get ridiculously over powered with a slow one then could they add that to the bottom ... complaining without providing an alternate solution is worthless imo and I am not familiar enough with the mechanics to think of a solution.



Make the Hammer's damage scale based on the weapon dps + ap. Give it a base damage for a 0 dps weapon and scale from there.Say for example 110% weapon dps and fuck weapon damage.
Problem solved. High dps tank weapons with defensive stats become the most desirable again.
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Postby Tieran » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:07 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:
Tieran wrote:If anyone has a solution to this, so HotR actually causes more tps with a fast tanking weapon, and does not get ridiculously over powered with a slow one then could they add that to the bottom ... complaining without providing an alternate solution is worthless imo and I am not familiar enough with the mechanics to think of a solution.



Make the Hammer's damage scale based on the weapon dps + ap. Give it a base damage for a 0 dps weapon and scale from there.Say for example 110% weapon dps and fuck weapon damage.
Problem solved. High dps tank weapons with defensive stats become the most desirable again.


Yep that seems logical - might be a bit limited scaling with gear wise, ie not much you can do about it... but if they add a *small* AP / Str modifies as well then it could be ideal.
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