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(3.0.3.9183) WotLK TPS Weapons Spreadsheet

Warning: Theorycraft inside.

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Postby Khayne » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:45 pm

Wasn´t healing and spell damage changed to sipmle "Spell power" in WotLK?

Iirc on that, then i´d guess that the mace you linked is simply a pure healer mace.

Int+mp5+spellpower(Healing). no points in stamina even.

Healer weapon, especially to shaman and paladin (both gain from int, neither are spirit based so mp5 instead, everyone needs spellpower).
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yeah

Postby Mavrix » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:02 pm

The question is whether it out-performs more appropriate tanking weapons for threat generation.
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Postby Salamandra » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:26 pm

Lore wrote:
Salamandra wrote:That war mace is hardly well itemized. Loads of int and mp5... no stamina.

So, yes, it is poking fun at us.


It's itemized for healers.


I know that, and very well itemized it is for that purpose.
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Postby Melathys » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:27 pm

I noticed you put in lvl 70 weapons...how does the badge healing mace do?

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34896

Did you take stamina > spell power into account? I looked for it in your stuff, but quite possibly just missed it.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:33 pm

I'll put in the others, but if you can open the spreadsheet you can easily add another weapon. Just punch them in on another line.

Aye, Stam->SP is taken into account, along with SotP and Templar. SS isn't as it doesn't currently affect strength and I've never seen a weapon with SBV.

[Edit] Added a few more weapons.
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Postby Widdox » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:58 am

Can you add some ability to use this spreadsheet for lvl 70. It looks like that in our current +dmg gear the difference between ....

Syphon of the Nazreim
Gavel of Naaru Blessings

Is something around 25 TPS, but Im not 100% sure of that. The reason I am asking is that our current weapons are 40 dps. And the Syphon is 100.2, that at least makes me want to see if having a high dmg 2.8 speed weapon will be worth it come 3.0 patch.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:32 am

moduspwnens wrote:If it is the case that a healing mace is superior to the warrior weapon, it needs to be made clear to the developers. It's contrary to the design, and it's (like the ranged slot in TBC) stats that a warrior will always have over a Paladin. Better to nip this one in the bud.


QFMMFT

Get on this folks, this is not right and needs to be changed.
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Postby Vanifae » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:59 am

Dragonzbane wrote:
moduspwnens wrote:If it is the case that a healing mace is superior to the warrior weapon, it needs to be made clear to the developers. It's contrary to the design, and it's (like the ranged slot in TBC) stats that a warrior will always have over a Paladin. Better to nip this one in the bud.


QFMMFT

Get on this folks, this is not right and needs to be changed.

Been on it.

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Postby Splug » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:29 pm

To be fair, an item with no stat points spent in defensive stats should generate more threat than an item with stat points invested in avoidance/stamina. I understand the ideological issue of Blizzard intending to phase out spellpower weapons and not quite making the cut (especially since it sounds like there's itemization that's spent on neither threat nor mitigation), but how big is the gap on threat between the healing stick and an equal-ilevel alternative?

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Postby Dorvan » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:43 pm

Splug wrote:To be fair, an item with no stat points spent in defensive stats should generate more threat than an item with stat points invested in avoidance/stamina. I understand the ideological issue of Blizzard intending to phase out spellpower weapons and not quite making the cut (especially since it sounds like there's itemization that's spent on neither threat nor mitigation), but how big is the gap on threat between the healing stick and an equal-ilevel alternative?

-Splug


No offense, but did you bother to examine the data posted? Look at the 2 Titansteel Weapons. They have the same stamina, and neither has any other defensive stats. Or the fixer upper and cranium crusher, they are rewarded from the same quests and the fixer upper spend stats on the ever expensive mp5, yet it comes out on par. In the epic case the +dam weapon is beating the melee weapon by about 60 tps from the graphs in the first post. When a major push in WotLK is to get us onto melee-based stats for our threat, this is a clear design flaw.
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Postby Splug » Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:59 pm

I saw the graphs, but I didn't have time to check the stats on the items being compared - abnormally busy at the office today. I just saw discussion about a weapon with zero stamina being better as an insult, and was responding to that. I understand the ideological issue with the caster weapons still being better, and that clearly still needs work. My point was that simply because a weapon has no stamina doesn't mean it should also be a completely incompetant threat weapon - in fact, the inverse should be true. I think I phrased my first post a bit poorly; I didn't have time to read it over like I usually do.

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Postby Mavrix » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:25 pm

Splug wrote:I saw the graphs, but I didn't have time to check the stats on the items being compared - abnormally busy at the office today. I just saw discussion about a weapon with zero stamina being better as an insult, and was responding to that. I understand the ideological issue with the caster weapons still being better, and that clearly still needs work. My point was that simply because a weapon has no stamina doesn't mean it should also be a completely incompetant threat weapon - in fact, the inverse should be true. I think I phrased my first post a bit poorly; I didn't have time to read it over like I usually do.

-Splug


The crux of the issue is what the points that would be given to stam are actually devoted to.
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Postby PsiVen » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:36 pm

I really don't agree that it's an itemization issue for us to use spell power weapons still. We're still using Strength gear, we still want slow weapons. If we had weapons that sacrificed this much DPS for pure strength they would be insanely overpowered (I checked, it'd be about 300 TPS higher than the Guardian is now).

The existence of healing weapons without stamina means nothing when there are quite clearly spell power weapons itemized for us at 80. The relative worth of weapon DPS itself is a bit of an issue, but that in particular is not.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:40 pm

For me it's the general issue that depending on both AP and SP is much more likely to lead to unintended balance issues than simply one or the other, and we've already seen that in the case of Ret Pallies for example. After seeing all the ways Blizzard's screwed up hybrid melee/spell mecanics over the past 3 years, I'm ready to jump completely on board with one framework or the other, and since AP seems to be the decision from Blizzard, the more distance we put between ourselves and SP the better imo.
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Postby Dragonzbane » Thu Aug 28, 2008 1:45 pm

PsiVen wrote:I really don't agree that it's an itemization issue for us to use spell power weapons still. We're still using Strength gear, we still want slow weapons. If we had weapons that sacrificed this much DPS for pure strength they would be insanely overpowered (I checked, it'd be about 300 TPS higher than the Guardian is now).

The existence of healing weapons without stamina means nothing when there are quite clearly spell power weapons itemized for us at 80. The relative worth of weapon DPS itself is a bit of an issue, but that in particular is not.


And that's all well and good up until/if they decide to put out some real tanking weapons based on the "melee" style (high DPS, slow speed, stam, str, and a defensive stat).

At that point in time we will be losing out on mitigation "yet again" to use a caster weapon because it's so much better.


<I already know what the replies will be>
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