PTR patch 2.2: Seal of Vengeance

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PTR patch 2.2: Seal of Vengeance

Postby Ardaic » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:17 pm

Posted on the PTR patch notes:

Seal of Vengeance duration increased to 15 seconds. In addition, when Seal of Vengeance strikes a target that already has 5 applications you will cause instant Holy damage.

Now, is it just me, or is this not going to bypass my occasional need for S/JoR to boost my threat?

Also, a followup question:

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/chara ... s&n=Ardaic

That's me ;-) I'm currently using Abacus of Violent odds for its Use to boost my stacking of Seal of Vengeance. I was planning to toss it once I got Figurine of the Colossus to drop... But that was also because of a drop in use of SoV... With that modification, is the block rating going to override what looks to be a potentially ultra-delicious tanking seal? Goal-wise, I'm currently only running Heroics and lower, with an aim for Kara in the next 3 months. Any info/feedback would be groovy.
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Postby Phaex » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:32 pm

Whoo i'm already using vengeance most of the time, while tanking some bigger stuff which lasts more than a few seconds.

Had major problems stacking it up fast enough on bosses tho, but i solved this by speccing weapon expertise.

With the new changes, you'll rarely ever see it wearing off because of missing too much or something. The new instant damage is a small but nice bonus to your tps.

Yes, Vengeance is a good tanking seal atm.
It will be the ultimate one when 2.2 goes live.

I'm thinking of something like judging sor while stacking vengeance up in the future for bursting initial agro. Sure, burns alot of mana, but you can afford that one the bigger dudes.
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Postby Candiru » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:02 am

WTB SoV
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Postby Ignus » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:37 am

be careful, the instant damage is 4. so.... no real difference.
If you invest all of your talents, all of your gear, all of your knowledge and skill into tanking, you should be the best tank.
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Postby Downpour » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:24 am

The "Instant holy damage" patch note makes it sound so much better than reality...
The real difference is the extra 3 seconds. From 120/12s to 150/15s is technically an increase in dmg per mana, if not in dmg per sec, but I'm hoping that the extra 3 seconds will make a marked improvement in reliability, but to be honest I can't see that happening. At present it falls off at 2 or 3 stacks for me with a 1.6 or 1.8 weapon, an extra 3 seconds will certainly help, but not enough.

WTB SoB ;)
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Postby bhullwheyy » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:25 pm

Downpour wrote: At present it falls off at 2 or 3 stacks for me with a 1.6 or 1.8 weapon, an extra 3 seconds will certainly help, but not enough.
WTB SoB ;)


ot: i suggest the lowercity-exalted gavel. 2.7 speed and SoV rarely runs out....got a decent threatboost by upgrading from CB :) and with 15 sec it will be even better
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Postby matchbox » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:28 pm

sov works good for VR when i'm fighting for aggro
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Postby Candiru » Tue Jul 17, 2007 6:25 pm

SoB isn't any use for tanking BTW :p

Sure you can use it with King's defender, but your threat will still drop massively as your consecration/holyshield won't be getting spelldamage bonus any more and JoB needs spelldamage to do decent ammounts of damage while SoB needs Str/melee crit to do decent damage.

So you can't really get much out of it.
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Postby Holyfield » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:31 pm

I'm using the gavel of unearthed secrets myself, and it's been great for SoV procs. However, I'm upgrading to the merciless gavel in bout 2 weeks. same stats, if not a bit more stam. More spell damage, and spell HIT which I enjoy. However, it's a 1.6 speed I believe. Back to SoR for me I'm guessing. Booooo, I was liking those 1.2 K crits with judgements of 5 proc SoV.
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Postby Gideon » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:03 am

I use the merciless gladiator's gavel. The only boss fight where I use SoV is Leotheras (for heavy judgments following an aggro reset) but even there I'm considering ditching it for better sustained threat from SoR.
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Postby Saphier » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:59 pm

Something I've been playing around with on PTRs is Stacking up to 5 Vengeance, judge Vengeance. Put up SoR. After 8 seconds, judge SoR, put up SoV to refresh stack. Judge SoV.

With Gavel of Unearthed Secrets I don't have much trouble getting the stack refreshed within the 5 seconds remaining.

It helps to judge SoV immediately after a refresh (love the new built in debuff timer from 2.1!) for maximum time to refresh it after SoR.

I forsee the SoR / SoV cycle being very powerful for sustained TPS. =D

Edit: I should add that while I was testing, the "on hit with 5 debuffs holy damage" part was only giving me 4 holy damage each time, which from what I understand is not what is intended. If that number is fixed to something decent, a SoR / SoV cycle might just be overkill.
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Postby Fridmarr » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:30 pm

Saphier wrote:Something I've been playing around with on PTRs is Stacking up to 5 Vengeance, judge Vengeance. Put up SoR. After 8 seconds, judge SoR, put up SoV to refresh stack. Judge SoV.

With Gavel of Unearthed Secrets I don't have much trouble getting the stack refreshed within the 5 seconds remaining.

It helps to judge SoV immediately after a refresh (love the new built in debuff timer from 2.1!) for maximum time to refresh it after SoR.

I forsee the SoR / SoV cycle being very powerful for sustained TPS. =D

Edit: I should add that while I was testing, the "on hit with 5 debuffs holy damage" part was only giving me 4 holy damage each time, which from what I understand is not what is intended. If that number is fixed to something decent, a SoR / SoV cycle might just be overkill.


Have you tried that type of switching against a level 73 boss? I'm thinking with the miss, resist, and proc rate you'll lose the stack pretty often.
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Postby jere » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:35 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
Have you tried that type of switching against a level 73 boss? I'm thinking with the miss, resist, and proc rate you'll lose the stack pretty often.


In general, the chance that the stack will fall off on average is actually pretty low. However in practice, you can get bad strings. I have had plenty of Prince fights under my belt where I watch SoV and it honestly on falls off around 1-3 times on any given fight (5-10 mins depending on the group) and in the event that it does fall off, I don't ever lose aggro because my threat ceiling is so high. Some people have worse luck than others, and it is based on luck. However, the chance that the stack will fall off really isn't that bad.

I use SoV a lot and love it. I find it does more dmg and threat than SoR for me, but I guess I am very lucky. Still it is a "chance" so SoR is the safer bet if one is worried about the possibility that the stack will fall.
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Postby Saphier » Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:59 pm

Yes, I've tried it against 73s... Between Precision and the scattered hit on my tanking gear thanks to warrior tanking itemization, I rarely miss. Human +5 swords/maces also helps cut down on their dodges and parries. I can't say I've noticed SoV being resisted very much...

Even if the stack does fall off, You're set for restacking it, and you gained double threat while it was ticking and you were using SoR.

The only loss is the 30% boost on the first stack you might have had due to AW, but the gain is pretty big.

give it a try =)
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Postby Ardaic » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:11 pm

Love that this discussion is kicking back up, but if i may redirect part of the original question...

I'm currently using Abacus of Violent odds for its Use to boost my stacking of Seal of Vengeance. I was planning to toss it once I got Figurine of the Colossus to drop... But that was also because of a drop in use of SoV... With that modification, is the block rating going to override what looks to be a potentially ultra-delicious tanking seal? Goal-wise, I'm currently only running Heroics and lower, with an aim for Kara in the next 3 months. Any info/feedback would be groovy.


Not that it's going to impact much right now... 5 kills now and still no Figurine of the Colossus :(
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