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Tricky question?

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Tricky question?

Postby Soulbreaker » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:33 am

Is 3/5 wepon expertise as good as 3/3 Precesion?

I don't know weather I should drop precesion and use the 3 points in mastery or not. I don't really understand what the skill does.
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Postby Sereen » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:25 am

No one really KNOWS just how beneficial Weapon Expertise is at this stage. There's some testing going on, testing whether it lowers your chance to be parried. Having you attack parried is universally bad, and if the skill lowers that occurrence then it might be an invaluable tool in out tanking repertoire. I'd wait for more testing personally though, because we definitively KNOW what precision does.

Well, that's my 2 copper. xD

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Postby Candiru » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:01 am

Human paladins already have weapon expertise don't they? So they probably get a largetr benefit from it than other paladins.

Eg instead of parry chance going from 5% to 3% it would go from 3% to 1%, a bigger fractional shift. (note these numbers are wrong)
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:59 am

I've already seen enough data (which I produced myself) to feel that WE > Precision. I've permanently added it into my mitigation spec.
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Postby Prepared » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:52 am

Mortehl wrote:I've already seen enough data (which I produced myself) to feel that WE > Precision. I've permanently added it into my mitigation spec.


Is this posted anywhere for other Paladins to digest and speculate on, or you just going to keep all this hot, juicy data to yourself? ^_~
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:10 am

There's a thread in here on it. Hang on while I look.

Edit: Found it: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =8275#8275
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Postby Soulbreaker » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:39 am

Ok but would it benefit a Belf as much as a human Paladin, I think not. And I'm wondering if 3/5 WE is =,<,> 3/3 Precesion.

I don't really want to put another 2 points into the Prot tree if I can avoid it but shifting 3 points from Precesion to WE is quite doable if it is in fact a benefit, I'm sure you understand.
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Postby Prepared » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:18 pm

Mortehl wrote:There's a thread in here on it. Hang on while I look.

Edit: Found it: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =8275#8275


Thanks!

I can't quote you in that thread, or reply... for some reason, so I'll say it here.

I can't view the second report, so I can't compare the data. It says it expired, like, 6 days ago. Are you able to re-host, or correct the link?

Also, your sample size is really small. Less than 200 attacks? 2% is roughly 4 attacks over 5 minutes of combat? That could just be random chance. (and yes, I know you have to get out for shatters, even so).
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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:45 pm

Prepared wrote:
Mortehl wrote:There's a thread in here on it. Hang on while I look.

Edit: Found it: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =8275#8275


Thanks!

I can't quote you in that thread, or reply... for some reason, so I'll say it here.

I can't view the second report, so I can't compare the data. It says it expired, like, 6 days ago. Are you able to re-host, or correct the link?

Also, your sample size is really small. Less than 200 attacks? 2% is roughly 4 attacks over 5 minutes of combat? That could just be random chance. (and yes, I know you have to get out for shatters, even so).


Sorry, weeks of attempts have expired unfortunately (and those are expiring too)


I made my decision after over 1000 attacks total.

What I noticed was:

1) Decreased ParryPwnage

2) Approximately the same DPS (and threat).

3) For some reason, consistent less miss on consecrate. I can't explain this but again, it was consistent.


The best that I can say for you is to just respec and try it. I really believe that the benefit of not getting wtfpwned because less attacks are parried is good enough reason for the talent. I wish it was a 2 or 3 point as opposed to 5.
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Postby Prepared » Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:50 pm

Mortehl wrote:
Prepared wrote:
Mortehl wrote:There's a thread in here on it. Hang on while I look.

Edit: Found it: http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... =8275#8275


Thanks!

I can't quote you in that thread, or reply... for some reason, so I'll say it here.

I can't view the second report, so I can't compare the data. It says it expired, like, 6 days ago. Are you able to re-host, or correct the link?

Also, your sample size is really small. Less than 200 attacks? 2% is roughly 4 attacks over 5 minutes of combat? That could just be random chance. (and yes, I know you have to get out for shatters, even so).


Sorry, weeks of attempts have expired unfortunately (and those are expiring too)


I made my decision after over 1000 attacks total.

What I noticed was:

1) Decreased ParryPwnage

2) Approximately the same DPS (and threat).

3) For some reason, consistent less miss on consecrate. I can't explain this but again, it was consistent.


The best that I can say for you is to just respec and try it. I really believe that the benefit of not getting wtfpwned because less attacks are parried is good enough reason for the talent. I wish it was a 2 or 3 point as opposed to 5.


I do, too, because I just can't justify moving any points around. I don't want to lose Redoubt/Shield Spec, or anything in my Ret tree. :\ At worst, think it may be time to drop Anticipation, since I have already over 510 defense in just about every gearset.
"Judgement day's not coming soon enough."


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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:01 pm

Prepared wrote:
Mortehl wrote:The best that I can say for you is to just respec and try it. I really believe that the benefit of not getting wtfpwned because less attacks are parried is good enough reason for the talent. I wish it was a 2 or 3 point as opposed to 5.


I do, too, because I just can't justify moving any points around. I don't want to lose Redoubt/Shield Spec, or anything in my Ret tree. :\ At worst, think it may be time to drop Anticipation, since I have already over 510 defense in just about every gearset.


Drop the SoTC points and move them into WE. Really, I can't stress enough how serious getting your attacks parried is.
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Postby Kvaern » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:03 pm

Problem with dropping anticipation is that it directly affects your life pool.

w/o anticipation you will need more avoidance on items to be uncrushable which means less items points for stamina (and armor for that matter).

ofc you might reach a gearing point where it doesn't matter anymore but as far as I'm aware that's well ahead of anything being tanked by paladins atm.
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Postby Lore » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:09 pm

I can think of very few talents available to a prot paladin that are more worthwhile than Anticipation.
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Postby Prepared » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:12 pm

Mortehl wrote:
Prepared wrote:
Mortehl wrote:The best that I can say for you is to just respec and try it. I really believe that the benefit of not getting wtfpwned because less attacks are parried is good enough reason for the talent. I wish it was a 2 or 3 point as opposed to 5.


I do, too, because I just can't justify moving any points around. I don't want to lose Redoubt/Shield Spec, or anything in my Ret tree. :\ At worst, think it may be time to drop Anticipation, since I have already over 510 defense in just about every gearset.


Drop the SoTC points and move them into WE. Really, I can't stress enough how serious getting your attacks parried is.


I would have to see what that does to my threat, because some of our DPS, quite honestly, are insane with threat.
"Judgement day's not coming soon enough."


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Postby Mortehl » Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:18 pm

Prepared wrote:
Mortehl wrote:
Prepared wrote:
Mortehl wrote:The best that I can say for you is to just respec and try it. I really believe that the benefit of not getting wtfpwned because less attacks are parried is good enough reason for the talent. I wish it was a 2 or 3 point as opposed to 5.


I do, too, because I just can't justify moving any points around. I don't want to lose Redoubt/Shield Spec, or anything in my Ret tree. :\ At worst, think it may be time to drop Anticipation, since I have already over 510 defense in just about every gearset.


Drop the SoTC points and move them into WE. Really, I can't stress enough how serious getting your attacks parried is.


I would have to see what that does to my threat, because some of our DPS, quite honestly, are insane with threat.


So is mine, which is why I use wizard oil. You also need to consider what happens to your threat when you hit more often :D
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