Proper rotation during Bloodlust

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Proper rotation during Bloodlust

Postby lostmage » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:03 pm

Hey everyone,

I'm curious what is the "best" rotation (with regards to DPS or TMI) is to do during Bloodlust at high (45-50%) haste values. At 50% haste, bloodlust doesn't give any GCD reduction, but the extra 30% melee haste still reduces the CD of our abilities further.

Theck's post at http://www.sacredduty.net/2014/01/30/5- ... -analysis/ says CSw > J > [Other Fillers], with the max wait on cs being .35 seconds, and no waiting for judgement to be available.

The SimC default action list says
Code: Select all
actions+=/crusader_strike
actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>0&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains<=0.5
actions+=/judgment
actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.judgment.remains,if=cooldown.judgment.remains>0&cooldown.judgment.remains<=0.5&(cooldown.crusader_strike.remains-cooldown.judgment.remains)>=0.5

which is CSw.5 > Jw.5 > [Other Fillers], with max wait being .5 seconds on both CS and J.

At 80% melee haste (50% base + Bloodlust), CS has a CD of 2.5 seconds, J has a CD of 3.33 seconds. Other temp haste buffs (Windsong, Herbalism, etc) can push these lower, I think I've seen CS with a 2.33 second CD minimum, but lets ignore the haste buffs for now.

Theck's rotation (and the standard prot pally rotation) would be
Code: Select all
(0.00)CS, (1.00)J, (2.00)Filler, (3.00)CS, (4.00)Filler, (5.00) J, (6.00) CS, (7.00) Filler, (8.00) Filler, repeat
. Which is the standard CS J x CS x J CS x x rotation in 9 seconds (5 HP generators, 4 fillers) for a total of .556 HP/second.

Simc's rotation, on the other hand, would be
Code: Select all
(0.00)CS, (1.00)J, wait, (2.50)CS, (3.50) Filler, (4.50)J, (5.50)CS, (6.50)Filler, wait, (7.83)J, (8.83)CS, (9.83)Filler, repeat
with a small wait after the last filler. Which comes out to CS J CS x J CS x J CS x in 11.33 seconds (7 HP generators, 3 fillers) for a total of .618 HP/second.

Lastly, something I've been trying when running HA (but not with DP) is to absolutely maximize use of CS and J within Bloodlust, waiting even longer than .5s and only using fillers when it won't clip CS or J CDs at all.
Code: Select all
(0.00)CS, (1.00) J, wait, (2.50)CS, wait, (4.33)J, (5.33)CS, (6.33)Filler, repeat
with a small wait after the last filler. Which comes out to CS J CS J CS x in 7.83 seconds (5 HP generators, 1 filler) for a total of .639 HP/second.

So let's call those rotations 1, 2, and 3. Rotation 1 generates less HP, has the least wait time, and uses the most fillers per minute. Rotation 2 generates 22% more HP than 1, at the cost of fillers. With this rotation, I have a feeling you wouldn't be casting abilities near the bottom of your filler priority(Cons, HoW) very often. Rotation 3 generates even more HP than 2, at the cost of another filler. In practice, it's probably better to use 2 than 3 because it allows you more chances to use GC procs, and that .83 second wait seems excessive. Rotations 2 and 3 both also benefit from additional haste, reducing the duration of those waits, whereas rotation 1 does not.

So I guess my question ultimately is, which rotation would result in the most DPS? Which one would get the most HP generation (and thus probably the lowest TMI)?

I would love to explore this through Simc, I'm just not comfortable enough writing/editing action lists to do so myself. Thanks in advance!
lostmage
 
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Re: Proper rotation during Bloodlust

Postby theckhd » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:32 pm

If you have 50% melee haste baseline, you don't have 80% during Bloodlust, you'd have 95%. Bloodlust is multiplicative with other haste effets.

The math works like this:
50% haste -> 1.5
30% haste -> 1.3
net haste: 1.5*1.3=1.95 -> 95% haste.

That aside, you can actually test your three scenarios pretty easily. If you run a quick simulation with the default profile, that will tell you the DPS and TMI of rotation #2:
Code: Select all
actions+=/crusader_strike
actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>0&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains<=0.5
actions+=/judgment
actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.judgment.remains,if=cooldown.judgment.remains>0&cooldown.judgment.remains<=0.5&(cooldown.crusader_strike.remains-cooldown.judgment.remains)>=0.5


To get rotation #1, you change the first "0.5" into "0.35" and remove the second /wait action, like so:
Code: Select all
actions+=/crusader_strike
actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>0&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains<=0.35
actions+=/judgment


To get #3, just increase the wait time on Judgment:
Code: Select all
actions+=/crusader_strike
actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>0&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains<=0.5
actions+=/judgment
actions+=/wait,sec=cooldown.judgment.remains,if=cooldown.judgment.remains>0&cooldown.judgment.remains<=0.83&(cooldown.crusader_strike.remains-cooldown.judgment.remains)>=0.5


Note that with the rotation you described, you're waiting up to 0.5 seconds for CS (2.00 to 2.50, and 7.33 to 7.83) and up to 0.83 seconds for Judgment (3.50 to 4.33). But you're not delaying Judgment for CS (J is available at 4.33, CS at 5.00, but you go ahead and use J at 4.33 anyway). So the time at the end of that code block, which represents the time you're willing to sit on an off-cooldown J to prioritize CS>J ,has to be smaller than 5.00-4.33=0.67. The default value of 0.5 will still work there, but at higher haste values you may need to lower or raise that depending on the behavior you want.

I'm swamped with other stuff at the moment, so I can't guarantee I'll get time to run those myself. If you want to test this yourself, try using the "optimal_raid=0" option to turn off bloodlust and raid buffs, and then just add a "shirt=haxx,stats=xxxxhaste" line to the gear section to artificially boost your haste to the level you want (replacing xxxx with however much haste rating you want to add). That lets you fake having permanent bloodlust at an arbitrary total haste %.
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Re: Proper rotation during Bloodlust

Postby lostmage » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:29 am

Thanks for the response.

I tested the 3 out, and here's my results (50k Sims, on a 95% haste pally, 450s fights, no bloodlust, T16H25 boss).

Using DP
Rotation #1) CS, J, CS, Filler
593,876 DPS, 74.2k TMI

Rotation #2) Same as Rotation #1 at these haste levels.
594,022 DPS, 74.2k TMI

Rotation #3) CS, J, CS, J, CS, Filler, CS, J, Filler
572,096 DPS, 67.7k TMI

Using HA
Rotation #1)
600,393 DPS, 13.0k TMI (!)

Rotation #2)
600,348 DPS, 12.8k TMI (Not surprising, it's the same rotation as above).

Rotation #3)
578,446 DPS, 9.8k TMI

I can't quite explain the TMI difference using HA. I was thinking it might have put us to the point where we have almost 100% SotR uptime, so we are never taking unmitigated melees, but both options put us at right around 95% SotR. Maybe it's because our pull is stronger, allowing us to get our 5 stack EF running earlier, and most of our damage intake spikes were on the pull.

The reason #1 and #2 ended up the same is that at 95% melee haste, your rotation will always boil down to CS-X-CS-X-CS-X... with a .3s wait for each CS (unless you waited X). Therefore, there's never a time you'll have to wait .35 > n > .5 seconds for CS.

So, I think the more interesting decision is whether you wait to wait for J or not. Rotation 1 doesn't, because a CS-J-CS-Filler rotation never has to wait for Judgement at such high haste. Rotation 3 will wait for J, up to about .83 seconds but in practice less (about .57s at 95% haste). The extra waiting is a meaningful DPS loss, about 3-4%, but it is a minor survivability gain (on the order of .7% SotR uptime).

That said, during Heroism, you're probably at a rather low chance of death relative to the rest of the fight. You're generating more HP than normal, your healers are healing for more than normal, etc. Giving up a few HP to gain 3-4% DPS seems usually worthwhile to me. So, for what it's worth, I think I'm going to go ahead and do CS-J-CS-Filler rotation during Bloodlust.
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Re: Proper rotation during Bloodlust

Postby lostmage » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:35 am

After thinking about it a bit, I strongly suspect the difference in TMI between HA and DP is all from the pull. Using DP, it takes until you cast the 2nd CS (~2.3s) to get SotR up, and in that time you're guaranteed to take 2 unmitigated melees. If you're waiting until 5 HP to cast SotR on the pull, you'll take 4 unmitigated melees before your first SotR.

With HA, your first SotR cast is right after you cast CS. I strongly suspect that with >95% SotR uptime in a 450s fight, you will almost never take 2 back to back unmitigated melees, which would lead to a vastly reduced TMI.
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Re: Proper rotation during Bloodlust

Postby theckhd » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:11 pm

Yeah, generally the pull is a bad period for TMI. It's a good reason to use GAnK and/or DP on the pull (in SimC) - the 50% mitigation neutralizes most of that first-ten-seconds spike damage and makes the results slightly more reflective of what's good during play (rather than just what helps you survive the pull).
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Re: Proper rotation during Bloodlust

Postby Schroom » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:43 pm

or let the other tank start the fight ^^ (just as an alternative option :P )
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