Prot Paladin Stat weights

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Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Zenobius » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:27 am

Alright guys,

So, I've been reading a bit diagonally on here and Sacred Duty and haven't managed to find my answer just yet.

So here is the question:

I'm going for a haste build with Exp hard capped on my prot paladin, I managed to get something together that I think is decent as far as custom stats weights are concerned but I'm no pro in Theorycrafting or even basic math, I kinda wing it and assess the feel of the deal. So, if I was to punch in hard, solid numbers for stats weight, keeping in mind the priority I'm going for; 7.5% Hit/15% Exp/HASTE/Stam/Mastery/parry/dodge, what would they be like?

I appreciate all your help

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Jadhzia » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:32 am

If I remember correctly, ths stat weights at Ask Mr. Robot were provided by Theck, so here they are:

Stamina 4
Hit 3
Expertise 2.99
Haste 1
Mastery 0.9
Armor 0.64
Strength 0.5
Dodge 0.25
Parry 0.25

Personally, I change the Stamina weight to 3, which seems more appropriate in my case (only 10-man normal mode raiding) because :
- With Stamina so far above Hit and Expertise, Mr. Robot wants me to drop the caps on both, which is a very bad idea.
- Hybrid gems (Stamina + other stat) can be suggested instead of pure blue gems.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Sagara » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:27 am

I think you can achieve the same result with 3.9 or 3.8 on stam. Theck had specifically set Stam at 4 because there was a breakpoint around that point.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fetzie » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:10 am

That was the breakpoint for AMR to stop gemming hit instead of stamina in blue sockets.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Zenobius » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:49 am

Awesome, I'll try that out and see what happens! Thanks a lot guys!
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Rachmaninoff » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:34 pm

Its been a long time and I'm glad to be playing again. but can someone explain to me why dodge and parry are on the bottom of the weight list? and why haste is even on the list? I know things have changed and I haven't been around in a long time but has the world gone mad? cats and dogs living together? mass hysteria?
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Koatanga » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:36 pm

Rachmaninoff wrote:Its been a long time and I'm glad to be playing again. but can someone explain to me why dodge and parry are on the bottom of the weight list? and why haste is even on the list? I know things have changed and I haven't been around in a long time but has the world gone mad? cats and dogs living together? mass hysteria?

Bliz has gone to an active mitigation model for tanks. Our mitigation requires Holy Power, so the faster we generate Holy Power, the more frequently we can deploy our active mitigation. In addition, the Seal of Choice these days is Insight, so the more damage we do, the more we heal ourselves. If that wasn't enough, we also have the Glyph of Battle Healer to heal others - again tied to the amount of damage we do.

Haste gives us more holy power to do more mitigating and lets us do more damage which in turn does more healing to us and the group.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby lythac » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:31 am

Koatanga wrote:
Rachmaninoff wrote:Its been a long time and I'm glad to be playing again. but can someone explain to me why dodge and parry are on the bottom of the weight list? and why haste is even on the list? I know things have changed and I haven't been around in a long time but has the world gone mad? cats and dogs living together? mass hysteria?

Bliz has gone to an active mitigation model for tanks. Our mitigation requires Holy Power, so the faster we generate Holy Power, the more frequently we can deploy our active mitigation. In addition, the Seal of Choice these days is Insight, so the more damage we do, the more we heal ourselves. If that wasn't enough, we also have the Glyph of Battle Healer to heal others - again tied to the amount of damage we do.

Haste gives us more holy power to do more mitigating and lets us do more damage which in turn does more healing to us and the group.


Also block capping has gone, 2 roll system now - first roll for avoidance, second for block. So the reduced damage intake from dodge/parry is completely RNG.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:35 am

Koatanga wrote:In addition, the Seal of Choice these days is Insight, so the more damage we do, the more we heal ourselves. If that wasn't enough, we also have the Glyph of Battle Healer to heal others - again tied to the amount of damage we do.

Just to clarify, Seal of Insight healing is not linked to damage. It's a 15 PPM proc chance per melee attack, with its own AP/SP scaling formula. We do get more procs with haste though, as we generate attacks per second. It's only Battle Healer that's tied to damage done.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fetzie » Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:49 am

Thought it was 20ppm. Didn't they buff it?
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby theckhd » Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:13 am

Yeah, you're right, it's 20 ppm now. I forgot about that buff.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Koatanga » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:44 pm

theckhd wrote:
Koatanga wrote:In addition, the Seal of Choice these days is Insight, so the more damage we do, the more we heal ourselves. If that wasn't enough, we also have the Glyph of Battle Healer to heal others - again tied to the amount of damage we do.

Just to clarify, Seal of Insight healing is not linked to damage. It's a 15 PPM proc chance per melee attack, with its own AP/SP scaling formula. We do get more procs with haste though, as we generate attacks per second. It's only Battle Healer that's tied to damage done.

Oops, sorry about that one. Was thinking more haste = more healing and more haste = more damage as a nice side-effect, and I crossed the beams.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Zenobius » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:40 pm

Another question, I understand that according to you Theck, Stamina is your best survival stat, which I can understand to a certain extent, after a certain time, it seems to me like you have "enough" Stam, but with th numbers you uggested for AMR, it keeps wanting to put mixxed color gems with Stam on them, why not go Exp/Haste or Hit/Haste and such? And also, according to YOU, what is ENOUGH stam?

Thanks
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby theckhd » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:49 pm

Have you seen my setup? More stam is always better, in my opinion. At least in heroic modes, I haven't yet felt like having more stamina would be a bad thing. Some of those heroic bosses hit hard - an unmitigated attack can be around 300k. Having ~750k health is still not enough of a cushion to make that comfortable.

You will see people say that you need less stamina for 10-mans. I can't speak to this firsthand, because I don't raid 10-man. The boss's damage output is certainly much lower, but I couldn't tell you exactly how much lower. I still think that stam-stacking is your best survival strategy in 10-mans though, at least if you're interested in pure survival. The question facing 10-man raiders is not, in my mind, "when do I have enough stamina." It's "when do I have enough stamina that I can safely start gearing for haste/DPS." Stamina is a better survivability stat than haste no matter how much you have, but the DPS benefits of haste can be a bigger advantage in killing heroic bosses.

Also, for those interested, here are the stat weights I use in AMR:
Stam: 4
Hit: 3
Exp: 2.99, all the way to hard cap
Haste: 1.75
Armor: 1
Mastery: 0.9
Dodge/Parry/Strength: 0.5

They're slightly tweaked from my original ones (which are the AMR control/haste defaults) so that it optimizes a little more logically. For example, this will generally skip a dodge/parry socket bonus but pick up a mastery or haste bonus, gem haste/stam in most yellow sockets as long as hit cap can be reached through reforging, and so on.
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Re: Prot Paladin Stat weights

Postby Fetzie » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:52 am

From my limited experience of 10m heroic raiding (first three bosses in MGV), when you have ilvl 490 or higher equipped, you have enough stamina with a single stamina trinket. As the tank's DPS is a much greater proportion of the raid dps as a whole and the DPS checks can be fairly brutal, I would focus on haste over stamina, so long as the boss isn't killing you before the healers can heal you.

Your mileage may vary, the better your healers, the less stamina you need. If they always need a fraction longer to heal you, then stamina may be worth slightly more to you.
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