A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:43 am

Pyrea wrote:They removed it from resource generation, but healing threat is still in the game.


But is this healing threat affected by Vengeance?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:47 am

Well, technically, no threat is affected by Vengeance.
Can't check right now, but the SoI heal is affected by Vengeance, as is GoBH, right?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:48 am

I just find it weird that had easier time having mobs stick to me with SoI on than with SoR or SoT -- which is why I'm wondering if there's a hidden mechanic that is aiding/triggering this effect
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:53 am

IF your SoI heals you for 20k without overhealing (entirely possible with vengeance AP, spell power scales with vengeance AP), the non-RF threat is 10k and the RF threat is 50k.

SoI scales with Spell Power, which is = AP/2
GotBH scales with AP because the healing is dependent on the damage of the strike.

The healing threat that results is then multiplied by the RF factor.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:55 am

Why the hell was I thinking Vengeance and not Righteous Fury? Then again, I dont think I have turned that off in months...
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:58 am

It does make sense. If just re-dug theck's number from the MATLAB thread, and SoR is only 1650 (?) DPS above SoI per target. Meanwhile, SoI produces 17k healing -> 8,5k extra threat. If memory serves, this threat is divided evenly per target.

If Pyrea is correct, RD multiplies this threat by 5.

So SoI should out-threat SoR anywhere between 1 -> 25 targets. That can't be right. Little help?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:04 am

Anybody got that threat level output macro handy?
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby jere » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:22 am

In one of my Paladin Threat threads at tankspot I posted it. It might be in one of the older cata or Wrath ones in the Archives section. If you can't find it, I'll post it up from home tonight when I am able to hop on.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:25 am

Just had a funny thought: SoI out-threats SoT.

And I found my mistake: I forgot to apply RF on SoR. So SoI would out-threat SoR for 1 -> 4 targets.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Fetzie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:37 am

jere wrote:In one of my Paladin Threat threads at tankspot I posted it. It might be in one of the older cata or Wrath ones in the Archives section. If you can't find it, I'll post it up from home tonight when I am able to hop on.


Can't seem to be able to find it :/
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby jere » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:13 am

Pyrea wrote:
jere wrote:In one of my Paladin Threat threads at tankspot I posted it. It might be in one of the older cata or Wrath ones in the Archives section. If you can't find it, I'll post it up from home tonight when I am able to hop on.


Can't seem to be able to find it :/



Try this:
Code: Select all
/run local o,m=COMBATLOG.AddMessage function COMBATLOG.AddMessage(s,...) local t=select(5,UnitDetailedThreatSituation("player","target")) m=(select(1,...))..(t and " ("..t.." Threat)" or "") o(s,m,select(2,...)) end


You just press it once per log in, and then any combat entries in the combat window will show up as long as you have the enemy targeted. I try to space things out because the threat API isn't as fast as the combat window entries and it takes a second or two for the threat API to catch up.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:11 pm

Sagara wrote:Just had a funny thought: SoI out-threats SoT.

And I found my mistake: I forgot to apply RF on SoR. So SoI would out-threat SoR for 1 -> 4 targets.

I was going to say... it looks like 5 targets to me, not 25. :)

As Pyrea noted, the turn trick still works, that's how I used it to test HotR yesterday.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Sagara » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:46 pm

AHAH! Caught myself before theck did!

Even then, I thing I'd only use SoR in situations where all adds are clumped from the start (trash packs), or pop in a predictable place where I know I can reliably be in time (no example out the top of my head).

SoI has no range limit, so anything aggro'ing on a member of your group will start getting threat from SoI. Even when one pops North and the other pops South.

As annoying and twisted as it is, there's quite a few interesting consequences from this change.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby KysenMurrin » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:40 am

And chances are they'll be nerfed hard like Judgement of Light was.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby jere » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:39 am

The only downside to healing threat is that it is split amongst the number of targets you have. So if you heal for 2000, generating 5000 threat, it won't be 5000 threat for each mob, but it is split amongst them. I'm not 100% sure it is evenly split either. I got some weird results when testing it, but I never got a chance to chase those down and see if they were legit or if I did something in my test to affect them.

And CRZ makes it much more difficult to test this stuff now. Before I could go to a secluded location and test out things like this. Now I get a lot more of the random people trying to help you kill the adds you are testing on, or the people who are just doing it to be jerks or who want to skin your kill.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Brokenone » Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:40 am

I asked this on EJ several days ago, but didn't get a response. I'm not sure if this is the right thread for it either. Can anyone look at these logs and tell me some things:

Me:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

This is the number 1 ranked guy for that fight:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

At the time our gear was very comparable. Nothing out of the ordinary.

His consecrates are hitting for 4 times as much as mine on average. His AS are hitting 3 times harder than mine on average. Can anyone explain these massive differences? He took a bit more damage than me, so possibly had more vengeance, but I can't imagine it would account for that large of a difference.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:46 am

Yeh, i have noticed my numbers are nowhere hitting the same as others... I am normally in the low 30s with luck.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:32 am

If someone has some time on live today, could I request another Holy Wrath data set? The PTR notes are a little odd:
Code: Select all
Protection

    Avenger's Shield now does 6,732 + 31.5% of SP damage, up from 4,488 + 21.0% of SP.
    Guarded by the Light now increases your total Stamina by 25%, up from 15%.
    Holy Wrath base damage doubled.

AS matches my testing, but Holy Wrath doesn't. When we tested it, it was the SP scaling that was doubled, while the base damage was unchanged.

What I'm trying to determine is whether they're really reverting (and heavily nerfing) HW, or (more likely) if this is just a case of them botching a tooltip update.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby Klaudandus » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:46 pm

Code: Select all
    AP       HW
   602     4849
  3412     7406
  5224     9054
  7942    11528
  9714    13140
12066    15281
15154    18091
16918    19697
18612    21238

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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:13 pm

Code: Select all
Linear model Poly1:
     f(x) = p1*x + p2
Coefficients (with 95% confidence bounds):
       p1 =        0.91  (0.91, 0.9101)
       p2 =        4301  (4300, 4301)

Goodness of fit:
  SSE: 1.497
  R-square: 1
  Adjusted R-square: 1
  RMSE: 0.4624


Confirmed that the tooltip update is wrong, and that the SP scaling was doubled while the base damage was unchanged. We'll want to check it on the PTR later as well just to make sure they didn't reverse it.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:12 am

While I'm aware of this clarification, we should still test RPPM effects for ourselves. As all brand new implementations alike, RPPM may well be glitched. Therefore I'm asking for three distinct data sets.

1. RPPM : scaling with attack speed
Gear : naked, but having equipped a 1H weapon* enchanted with Elemental Force (*avoid those with haste rating). Faster weapons are preferable.
Seal : none.
Buffs : the relevant buff class (DPS DK, Enh Shaman, any Rogue).
Target : any low-level target dummy.
Attack sequence : just autoattacks (no positional requirement).
Goal : at least 3h of autoattacks.

2. RPPM : scaling with spell haste
Gear : naked, but having equipped a 1H weapon* enchanted with Elemental Force (*avoid those with haste rating). Faster weapons are preferable.
Seal : Insight.
Buffs : the relevant buff class (Shadow Priest, Elem Shaman, Balance Druid).
Target : any low-level target dummy.
Attack sequence : just autoattacks (no positional requirement).
Goal : at least 3h of autoattacks.

3. RPPM : delta_t
Gear : naked, but having equipped a FFS enchanted with Elemental Force (use exactly that weapon, not any other alternative).
Seal : Insight.
Buffs : none.
Target : any low-level target dummy.
Attack sequence : only autoattacks and CS (no positional requirement).
Methodology : using a swing timer addon, precisely position the CS casts immediately after autoattacks.
Goal : at least 200 synchronized CS casts.


There you go. Not a pain in the arse, but three. :P
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:39 am

Since Seal of Insight gives 10% spell haste, I'm going to try to do #2 on Theck while I get some other work done. I can log on an 85 rogue or DK to take care of #1 later.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:54 am

~3 hours of AA with elemental force and FFS: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-u ... details/6/

Also note that my weapon broke near the end, so you may want to snip the last 5-10 minutes off to be safe.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby tlitp » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:11 pm

theckhd wrote:~3 hours of AA with elemental force and FFS: link

Alright. The observed proc rate is well outside the 95% CI of the theoretical one (no scaling as the null hypothesis), we can be reasonably sure that RPPM scales as intended with spell haste.
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Re: A Call to Arms - MoP Mechanics Testing

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:59 am

Updated the front page with another parse request:
Test #50: SotR and dynamic mastery effects
  • Gear: any, preferably low dodge, using one or two trinkets that have mastery on-use effects. Bring a melee-dealing friend with high AP but using either a Dirk or a Club. No dual-wielders.
  • Seal: Insight
  • Buffs: none
  • Talents: Holy Avenger
  • Target: any dummy
  • Attack sequence: regular rotation on the dummy, can stick to just CS/J/AS for holy power and SotR as finisher
  • Methodology: Have your friend auto-attack you from behind while you do your rotation on the dummy. What I'm looking for is two specific situations:
    1. With SotR buff not already active, use the mastery trinket effect, wait 5 seconds, then use Holy Avenger and maintain SotR until both HA and the mastery buff have ended. Continue recording the combat log for another 20-30 seconds afterward.
    2. With SotR buff not already active, use Holy Avenger and begin your SotR maintenance. About 12 seconds into HA's duration (6 seconds left on the buff), use the mastery trinket effect. Continue maintaining SotR as long as possible once HA has ended, and record an additional 20-30 seconds after the mastery buff expires.
  • Goal: One parse for each of the two situations described above. Upload combat log, preferably a separate one for each test. If you have to combine them into one, use some sort of signaling spell in-between so I can properly distinguish the two (i.e. cast Consecration once or twice in-between, and at no other time in the test).


I've been too busy to tackle the other two Elemental Force tests yet. I'll see if I can carve out some time this weekend to do the other two. Unless someone beats me to it, of course!
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